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This is of course my own legion - The Penatrators. But the list is Alpha Legion.
There's no fast attack, which is a bit weird for me. But as you can see there's a lot of infiltrating. It's normal to take a statured lord at this level, but i think that's really unfluffy for alpha legion. Please critiqueI've tried to iron out some problems with the list. Make it more flexible.2nd VERSION
Mr. Dandy: Lord, Dark Blade, D. Speed, MoCU, D. Aura, Furious Charge, Spiky Bits. Frag
Mr. Joy: Lieutenant, L. Claws, MoCU, Infiltrate, D. Speed, D. Reslience, Spiky, Frag
Squad Alpha: CSMx8,MoCU,Infiltrate, melta/plasma,Fisty Champ
Squad Beta: CSMx8,MoCU,Infiltrate, melta/plasma,Fisty Champ
Squad Gamma: CSMx8, Infiltrate, MoCu, Melta, frags, F charge, Frags, Fisty Visage champ
Obliterator x 2 - 140 pts
Predator: Autocannon, Lascannon sponsons, Smoke launchers 128
Havocs: CSMx8, Move through cover, Infiltrate,Plasma x 3 Melta
Havocs: CSMx8, Infiltrate, T. Hunters, Autocannon/Missile launcher x4
HQ: 282 - 18.88%
Troops: 532 - 35.49%
Elites: 140 - 9.34%
Fast : 0 - 0%
Heavy : 544 - 36.29%
Model Count: 45
Last edited by Karmoon; July 22nd, 2006 at 13:08. Reason: List update for neatness.
You have an excellent list, there is not much I can say. Although I do question your ability to take out tanks. Perhaps give squad Delta a Lascannon and make the pred a full annihilator? I'm not sure what you can drop for the points though. Maybe a few gifts?
Some excellent suggestions! Thank you.
The list is a bit unclear. when it says 'special weapon' that's basically either a melta or a plasma. The squads will more or less all have b.pistols and meltas, meaning they can shoot and then assault.
The las cannon idea is good. I can easily drop the points from a random place.
With every squad having a melta, the 2 las cannons on the predator, the 2 obliterators, i think that there should be enough popping power.
I was willing to drop the possesed, they were there out of some token effort at CC. Although the squads assisted by Mr. Dandy And Mr. Joy should cope in most situations.
Would you suggest putting more meltas on the infiltrating havocs?
or droping something for some melta armed bikes?
Melta melta melta, i'm going melta mad.
Hi Karmoon, you knew this was coming. here are my thoughts on your list.Statured lords. I don't like them much myself other than just for fun.Originally Posted by Karmoon
But yes, I couldn't agree more that alpha legion, sneaky geurilla warfare specialists would NOT chose to stick out like a sore thumb.very interesting that you chose to put your D.weapon on your lieutenant instead of your lord, I would suggest the other way around, it protects your D.weapon a bit better too(extra wound) AND it doesn't eat up so much of the leiutenant's gifts in one shot.Originally Posted by Karmoon
Fluff-wise, unless there is a good reason for it, I don't think any Lord would ever let one of his lackeys have a better toy than himself. BUT, its a very interesting twist and one that I would not expect for the reasons I mentioned but either way would and coudl work very well.I'm sure you already know my stance on having so many points tied up in HQs.Originally Posted by Karmoon
Rarely will either of them survive to turn 3, hidden fists are so common that EXPECT them to be fire and forget(but if they survive, BONUS!).
People like to kill HQs and will go out of their way to kill them because they are more fragile than the points you pay for them most of the time.
That said, Karmoon, you have well over the D.gifts limit on your lieutenant. its why I suggest putting the D.blade on your Lord. and LCs on the Lt.
D.Blade, D.aura, D.Speed, D.strength, Furious charge. BAM strength 8 HQ insta-killing missile.Is this list specifically for city fight missions? if so, then 6 man squads are just fine, if not they should definitely be 8-man squads. 6-man squads reserved for the dual plasma gun speed bump squads.Originally Posted by Karmooninstead of critiquing all of the squads, I think your troops need redundancy. there isn't really any cohesion of covering each other's butts. what happens when your only squad of X gets tied up and can't really do what it needs to do?Originally Posted by Karmoon
you have 4 squads with 4 different themes. Power weapons are nice but really, P.Fists are just so much better in squads.
What do you want your squads to be able to do? select a few roles for them and design accordingly.
for example: my suggestions are.
Fire support- either 2x plasma guns in a 6-man squad(no AC), 1x HW and 1x plasma gun
Close combat and tank hunters- 2x meltaguns, 8 man squad, AC with PF
Dedicated assault support 8 man squad, Furious charge AC with PF.
etc. I'm not saying you need to change your "theme" but it needs cohesion and a bit more design behind what they are going to do so they can function as a team that supports each other element and act independently if need be.woot! oblits are always worth the points.Originally Posted by Karmooninteresting, "chaos genestealers"? Thought of doing this myself, but they were just too expensive to be worth it. Close combat units NEED to be large squads so they can take casualties and still tick. at 5 men, they are a 135pt speed bump just begging to be rapid fired into. I suggest finding the points to bump them up to at least 8 man or dropping them to get something else.Originally Posted by KarmoonRight now, you are sorely lacking dedicated anti-tank. Make this guy all lascannons.Originally Posted by KarmoonFine, but there's a reason that I won't touch defilers in my alpha army.Originally Posted by Karmoon
if the rest of your army is infiltrating, what is one bad scatter going to do to one of your unfortunate squads?I like the alternate havoc config, though I would still really advise having equal meat-shield to special weapon ratio so you can take a lick'n and keep on kick'n. As they sit now, they are asking for 2 things- take casualties to reduce effectiveness (what happens when the oponent shoots first since these weapons are mid-close range weapons you will be infiltrating them close) and get assaulted, they are complete wussies right now.Originally Posted by KarmoonSO, my overall thoughs are that you have a nice idea going here. as the list matures I think it could be a really fearsome list.Originally Posted by Karmoon
But what are you going to do against Orks, or nids, or even tau? At this point the army has a few glaring weaknesses that need to be flushed out that I think can be done.
You need some horde control, and more anti-armor. Because let me tell you, when you face a nids list and you see SO MANY ENEMIES(including TMCs), you will NOT want to infiltrate close and then what do you do?
W/D/L Eleventy trillion billion/NONE/ NONE - I am STILL rulezor!
WINDMILLS DO NOT WORK THAT WAY!
A savage beating from the Yak! Excellent.
Well, I've tried to improve the list.
I think, because I mostly face MEQ opponents I'm a bit paranoid about getting that AP in there. My early Alpha legion successes came in the form of 4 plasma guns rapid firing into a MEQ command squad. Aah happy days. anyway, I digress.
POSSESSED: Dropped. These guys were a throw away effort to get some CC in. I think they'll be in my undivided list with a Mark of Khorne thrown in - ouch.
DEFILER: Dropped. I must admit, he was only put in the list for the battle cannon and also because I wanted to use the damn thing!!
I caved under pressure/saw the light and have the patented 'LO-tankhunting-fasty-nucks' with optional missile launcher incase of MEQage.
PREDATOR: Kept the same. I really like the current load out on it. It's an excellent balance between value and destructiveness.
I toned down the HQs. Mr. Joy should be legal now ( I always spoon the Lieutenant up).
I know it's unusual to have two at such a point level. But as the Yak said, people vitimise them and will fear them. Having two of them running at great speed from different directions should throw the enemy. They should be usefull in counter strike roles too.
I beefed up the havoc to have their meat shields.
@ The Yak
I think i understand your principle of redundancy now. Previously I was working on a principle of expendability.
I must have been lucky, but previously I was using squads so small that when they did go, it really didn't matter. But I'll trust in your experience.
Ok, think I'm ready for round 2! Bring it on! (please)
Last edited by Karmoon; July 22nd, 2006 at 13:27.
Hmmm I've never really seen a list like that. I agree with not running a statured Lord, I've never seen one make it past Turn 2. The Predator seems out of place in your infantry force, maybe drop it and try a 3rd Obliterator and more bodies in your squads? I'm a fan of full bodied squads as they produce more fire and stay above half strength longer which keeps them useful for the mission. The only major problem I had was with your HQs. Your list suggest they don't Infiltrate which means they are left in the dust, not up with their boys wiping out CC threats. Forget making them move like cavalry or jump troops, Infiltrate and walking beats all that. Plus it lets them be deployed where they need to be, just like most of your army does. Your opponent is gonna see a few Obliteratos and not know where to drop anything, giving you a huge advantage. The Lieutenant looks good on equipment but the Lord could be fleshed out a little. Mutation helps alot and Strength makes him a BEAST in CC with a S7 power weapon. One last thing, with the squads I've found mizing special weapons is never a good idea, 2 meltas busts a LR and 2 plasmas busts marines, mixing hurts effectiveness.
Mr. Joy can infiltrate. Mr. Dandy is placed as normal very much as bait.
If possible i want to deepstrike the oblits too.
This way, I place down a predator and an HQ and my opponent is thinking.. WTF? But it's still enough to affect how the enemy will deploy.
I can then infiltrate all my units accordingly.
Really constructive comments about the HQs - thanks. But, I feel the important thing about infiltrate is that you deploy last rather than closer. In this case speed is good. But certainly, what you say about mutation and strength is good and true. It hurt to take them off my original list.
Yeah I hear that, my Slaanest has gone through about 5-6 revisions which saw my Lord go from a 300 point beast to a 100 point weakling to his current 200 point minor beast status. Those points don't stretch as far as they should, needs a good licking with a Lash of Torment. Seeing your list actually made me write up a test list for Alpha Legion, might fit nicely into my 2nd army slot.
savage beating, BWAR! beaten about the head and shoulders!Alright karmoon! that is a much more fearsome list in my opinion. You have enough AP to give meqs a headache and enough shots to give bugs/orks a run for their money.Originally Posted by Karmoon
So, one last little tweak. if you decide to give those CSM squads plasmas I would also give them HBs too. It does in fact fly against the "no mixed weapon types" rule but I've been using plasma/hb as my fire-support squads for some time now and they work awesome. Accomplish this by dropping one plasma from the havocs(retaining 3 meltas) and viola!
one way to really boost your Lord/lieutenant's chances of survival is to be sure you send in your assault support either nearby or with him. I do this with my raptors and it works beautifully. Even if they don't arrive in assault the same turn, the threat is enough for your oponent to allocate resources away from your lord(which is what you want so he can slaughter in peace).
I'm looking forward to hearing how this list performs!
W/D/L Eleventy trillion billion/NONE/ NONE - I am STILL rulezor!
WINDMILLS DO NOT WORK THAT WAY!
Thanks once again.
Out of interest Yak, do you field Raptors in your Alpha legion army? I tried putting them in, but they're way over the 10-15% rule.