(1850) Themed Night Lords - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
    Now with STFU flames! Caluin's Avatar
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    708 (x8)

    (1850) Themed Night Lords

    After a discussion in the "Rhinos" thread, I threw together a gimmicky Night Lords list revolving around the idea of using Rhinos as rolling cover. The concept is simple - Rhinos advance as quickly as possible with their cargo. If they die, the troops use the wreckage as cover to claim a hearty 3+ Cover save and use overwhelming firepower to devastate their foes. If the Rhinos survive, then they roll around tank shocking units and allowing the CSMs to Rapid Fire plasmas from the hatch.

    The Furies are simple, and add an effective form of close combat that's lacking in the list. If need be, I can remove the Icon Bearer from Entangled units that are too far away to effectively summon them, ensuring that they'll stay in reserve until the surviving Rhinos are close enough to drop off a unit near where the Furies need to be. They then proceed to wallop the enemy.

    Predators are meant for anti-tank, the thing that the list lacks the most.

    The Lt is the odd ball. He's meant to be a "SURPRISE!" factor, which I feel is fitting for Night Lords. He pops out of the Rhino, in one fashion or another, and then uses Daemonic Speed + Move Through Cover to leave the safety of his unit and slam into enemy units, proceeding to make dicey bits out of them. The greatest thing is that the enemy won't have a clue in which Rhino he's hiding, so it's sort of like a game of shells.

    All together, the list comes out to 1804 points, leaving 46 to play around with. Ideas included giving the Predators TLLCs instead of ACs, or some upgrades for the Rhinos. Ideas?


    Chaos Lt. - 136
    MoCU; Furious Charge; Pair L-Claws; Daemonic Speed; Daemonic Strength; Daemonic Aura; Frags

    9x CSMs - 250
    Stealth Adept; MoCU; Bolters; 2x Plasma guns;
    Champion w/ Powerweapon; Daemonic Strength
    Rhino w/ Extra Armour; Smoke Launchers

    10x CSMs - 266
    Stealth Adept; MoCU; Bolters; 2x Plasma guns;
    Champion w/ Powerweapon; Daemonic Strength
    Rhino w/ Extra Armour; Smoke Launchers

    10x CSMs - 266
    Stealth Adept; MoCU; Bolters; 2x Plasma guns;
    Champion w/ Powerweapon; Daemonic Strength
    Rhino w/ Extra Armour; Smoke Launchers

    10x CSMs - 266
    Stealth Adept; MoCU; Bolters; 2x Plasma guns;
    Champion w/ Powerweapon; Daemonic Strength
    Rhino w/ Extra Armour; Smoke Launchers


    10x Furies - 150

    10x Furies - 150

    10x Furies - 150


    Predator - 145
    Autocannon; Lascannons; Daemonic Possession

    Predator - 145
    Autocannon; Lascannons; Daemonic Possession



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  3. #2
    Senior Member JORMAGI's Avatar
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    Very nice, I like it. Just like I imagined after you made your post.

    For the extra points the first thing I would do is upgrade your Lt. to a Lord. . . then maby some melta bombs for your AC's just in case you loose your predators. . .

    I find your choice of going with the power weapon on your AC's very interesting, it's a bit of a gamble on if your opponent is going to have frags. But still effective if they do.

    I very much approve of the furies. . . they will prove most beneficial to your men. Very nice and underutilized.

    Preds are solid anti tank, not much to add there.
    Votewar MKV 2nd place. . .

    Back from internet limbo, and glad to be here.

  4. #3
    KITTENS GIVE MORBO GAS! theyak's Avatar
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    385 (x8)

    Hey Caluin, I knew this was comin, and since I've had a lot of fortune and great success with my mechanized space wolves I'll give you my thoughts here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caluin
    After a discussion in the "Rhinos" thread, I threw together a gimmicky Night Lords list revolving around the idea of using Rhinos as rolling cover. The concept is simple - Rhinos advance as quickly as possible with their cargo. If they die, the troops use the wreckage as cover to claim a hearty 3+ Cover save and use overwhelming firepower to devastate their foes. If the Rhinos survive, then they roll around tank shocking units and allowing the CSMs to Rapid Fire plasmas from the hatch.

    The Furies are simple, and add an effective form of close combat that's lacking in the list. If need be, I can remove the Icon Bearer from Entangled units that are too far away to effectively summon them, ensuring that they'll stay in reserve until the surviving Rhinos are close enough to drop off a unit near where the Furies need to be. They then proceed to wallop the enemy.

    Predators are meant for anti-tank, the thing that the list lacks the most.

    The Lt is the odd ball. He's meant to be a "SURPRISE!" factor, which I feel is fitting for Night Lords. He pops out of the Rhino, in one fashion or another, and then uses Daemonic Speed + Move Through Cover to leave the safety of his unit and slam into enemy units, proceeding to make dicey bits out of them. The greatest thing is that the enemy won't have a clue in which Rhino he's hiding, so it's sort of like a game of shells.

    All together, the list comes out to 1804 points, leaving 46 to play around with. Ideas included giving the Predators TLLCs instead of ACs, or some upgrades for the Rhinos. Ideas?


    Chaos Lt. - 136
    MoCU; Furious Charge; Pair L-Claws; Daemonic Speed; Daemonic Strength; Daemonic Aura; Frags
    I think that this is one of the few times that I would probably endorse daemonic flight over daemonic speed. A lot of times what happens is that you will be using your rhinos to screen from enemy firepower when not bunkering in the wrecks. Which puts your rhino right in the way of where you want your HQ to go and suprise them and the difficult terrain tests can sometimes be a real pain in the butt. Having the ability to simply fly over your baracade would be welcome.
    Its similar to what I did with my bloodclaws(yeah, I know, I actually used those crazy guys with jetpacks on occasion) and fly them over the mobile cover to attack the nearest enemy unit.
    I think it would be a more efficient way to use the counter attacking, unpleasantry that is this lieutenant.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caluin
    9x CSMs - 250
    Stealth Adept; MoCU; Bolters; 2x Plasma guns;
    Champion w/ Powerweapon; Daemonic Strength
    Rhino w/ Extra Armour; Smoke Launchers
    Any reason why you're not making use of the hidden fist for the same amount of points? I realize that the idea is to have them in cover at all times(wreckage and all) I just think the fist would just avail you the advantage far more often than the PW. Especially since they are mid-range fighters and they will tend to be close to such unpleasant things like dreadnaughts and wraithlords etc etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caluin

    10x CSMs - 266
    Stealth Adept; MoCU; Bolters; 2x Plasma guns;
    Champion w/ Powerweapon; Daemonic Strength
    Rhino w/ Extra Armour; Smoke Launchers
    Pretty much the same as above, though I've always been a fan of 1x HB for the extra shots, they're just bunkering down anyhow, the 2x plasmas are still very tasty.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caluin


    10x CSMs - 266
    Stealth Adept; MoCU; Bolters; 2x Plasma guns;
    Champion w/ Powerweapon; Daemonic Strength
    Rhino w/ Extra Armour; Smoke Launchers

    10x CSMs - 266
    Stealth Adept; MoCU; Bolters; 2x Plasma guns;
    Champion w/ Powerweapon; Daemonic Strength
    Rhino w/ Extra Armour; Smoke Launchers


    10x Furies - 150

    10x Furies - 150

    10x Furies - 150
    furies certainly add an element of mobility, but have you considered throwing daemonettes instead? they cost the same and lend to a really nasty CC suprisse, AND they will add to that lacking Anti tank that you spoke of with their randing.

    Speaking of surprising unpleasantries, I might even consider throwing in a Greater daemon for that added "oh, #%$& factor) It would be an interesting variation on the daemon bomb, I think.
    Drive up set near the enemy in "bunkers" and then start popping out really nasty unpleasant stuff.
    Quote Originally Posted by Caluin


    Predator - 145
    Autocannon; Lascannons; Daemonic Possession

    Predator - 145
    Autocannon; Lascannons; Daemonic Possession
    [/QUOTE]
    I might even consider swapping these guys out to lend to the theme for havoc squads with MLs in the squad, drive towards your LOS and bunker down and blast, as long as the vehicle didn't move you can take 2 shots out of the hatches and then drive to the next target.

    Just my thoughts.
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  5. #4
    Now with STFU flames! Caluin's Avatar
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    708 (x8)

    Quote Originally Posted by theyak
    I think that this is one of the few times that I would probably endorse daemonic flight over daemonic speed.
    While Flight would be better for hopping over the wrecks, models with it are not allowed to be transported. So he'd be the only model on the board not in a transport. I'm not keen on that idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by theyak
    Any reason why you're not making use of the hidden fist for the same amount of points?
    Just to make use of the cover init. I had considered making the Champs wield both, but I consider that to be a severe waste of points. I figure any Dreads will be dealt with the Preds, but seeing as there are only two, that could be an issue (there were originally three of them).

    Hrm, that's a conundrum.

    Quote Originally Posted by theyak
    furies certainly add an element of mobility, but have you considered throwing daemonettes instead?
    Thought about it, then realized that Night Lords are limited to Furies only. Same goes for Greater Daemons. :yes:

    Quote Originally Posted by theyak
    I might even consider swapping these guys out to lend to the theme for havoc squads with MLs in the squad, drive towards your LOS and bunker down and blast, as long as the vehicle didn't move you can take 2 shots out of the hatches and then drive to the next target.
    That was one of my ideas, but points didn't allow it. I was going to use Havocs and buy them a Rhino, but not have them deploy in it. Instead, I'd have them block firing lanes, and use them as you would any typical Havoc unit, and then simply use their Rhinos to shield the important, cargo carrying ones from harm.

    Eventually I felt that 2x Predators were a more efficient use of the points.


  6. #5
    KITTENS GIVE MORBO GAS! theyak's Avatar
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    385 (x8)

    Quote Originally Posted by Caluin
    While Flight would be better for hopping over the wrecks, models with it are not allowed to be transported. So he'd be the only model on the board not in a transport. I'm not keen on that idea.
    Caluin, You can STILL have him attached to the squad, the beauty comes when it DOES wreck, or disembark from it.
    If wrecked, as your guys clamber back into the wreck for the cover, your guy is free to disengage from the unit and fly off to do his magic.
    Since he's the "unpleasant suprise" then even better, when a unit gets too close for comfort to the wreck, he just flies out and BAM!

    OR, you can still disembark at the begining of the movement phase fly him out toward a separate target.
    Granted, the same effect can be acheived with speed, I still think, with the way you're intending to use the wreck, and having him attached anyhow, it wold just be hedging your bet a little better, I can't tell you how many times I've rolled miserably even on the re-roll.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caluin

    Just to make use of the cover init. I had considered making the Champs wield both, but I consider that to be a severe waste of points. I figure any Dreads will be dealt with the Preds, but seeing as there are only two, that could be an issue (there were originally three of them).

    Hrm, that's a conundrum.

    Yeah, it would be a gross waste of points, but I still think the fists make for a tougher unit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caluin

    Thought about it, then realized that Night Lords are limited to Furies only. Same goes for Greater Daemons. :yes:
    Yeah, actually I realized the folly after I posted it during dinner.
    Celebratory single-malt and advice don't always mix. :wacko:

    Quote Originally Posted by Caluin


    That was one of my ideas, but points didn't allow it. I was going to use Havocs and buy them a Rhino, but not have them deploy in it. Instead, I'd have them block firing lanes, and use them as you would any typical Havoc unit, and then simply use their Rhinos to shield the important, cargo carrying ones from harm.

    Eventually I felt that 2x Predators were a more efficient use of the points.
    Hmm. I see your point, I just think it would theme better even if you had to cut back to one squad.
    W/D/L Eleventy trillion billion/NONE/ NONE - I am STILL rulezor!
    WINDMILLS DO NOT WORK THAT WAY!

  7. #6
    Librarian from Hell Andusciassus's Avatar
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    746 (x8)

    I think you'll need some Rators to keep those furies summon-able. I know the wording is (surprise) a bit vague, but just to avoid any mid-game ruledebates.

    I would also like to see at least on CC-squad, apart from the furies( who are fragile) , as once you are in CC -those 1A troops are so slow. Maybe it would be enough to add some D.mutations to the Champs.

    EDIT: I also assume you intend to keep your troops within Rapid Fire range to get the most from all them plasmas and since they also intend to be stationary the BoltPistol is as good as the Boltgun. At longer range it is a different matter though...
    Last edited by Andusciassus; August 12th, 2006 at 21:04.

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    I like the idea, but I wouldn't play this list after my horrific exp. that almost caused me to drop my possesed's rhino. My opponent rolled 2 6's with his LC, causing my Rhino's fuel tank to explode. I had unfortunatly been caught in a bottleneck, and my opponent got LoS by about a 1 cmx1cm view. I had 2 FULL squads w/in 2 inches, next to about 30 orks which were about 4 from the rhino. Then it turned out that 12 of 14 of my men took wounds, and I failed 7 saves. In essence, one lucky LC shot annihalated about 325 points of marines, without my opponent taking a single casuality. Just my little anecdote for the day.

  9. #8
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    I think the furies are kind of breaking with the theme, and as the only forward assault elements, unlikely to do too much to most Meq armies.

    I'd probably drop them in favor of a third predator and another squad of marines.
    Everything I have told you, even this, is a lie.

  10. #9
    Firefly Skarsgard's Avatar
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    Just be careful with the Daemonic Speed. I think it can't be used on the turn you disembark from a vehicle. Working off memory here.
    Mirage Arcana Podcast
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  11. #10
    Senior Member JORMAGI's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowcatX
    I think the furies are kind of breaking with the theme, and as the only forward assault elements, unlikely to do too much to most Meq armies.

    I'd probably drop them in favor of a third predator and another squad of marines.
    They fit fine into the theme. Also they do just fine against MeQ's The fact that they strike before them with a hight strength & plentiful attacks makes them win on a point for point bases in a fair fight:

    10 marines, 10 furies stock on all of them.
    Furies charge 30 attacks 15 hits, 10 wounds 3.33 dead marines
    Marines respond: 14 attacks, 7 hits, 3.5 wounds 2.33 dead furies

    Next turn:
    Furies 16 attacks 8 hits, 5.33 wounds 1.78 dead
    Marines 10 attacks 5 hits, 2.5 wounds 1.67 dead

    Next:
    Furies 12 attacks 6 hits, 4 wounds 1.3 dead
    Marinds 8 attacks 4 hits, 2 wounds 1.3 dead

    next:
    Furies 10 attacks 5 hits 3.3 wounds 1.1 dead
    marines 6 attacks 3 hits 1.5 wounds 1 dead

    Next:
    Furies 8 attacks 4 hits 2.6 wounds .8 dead
    marines 4 attacks 2 hits 1 wound .67 dead

    As you can see furies can bog down a marine assault squad of equal numbers for many turns. and win the battle of attrition in the end. Power weapons don't help against them either because their save is invunerable. So a vet sergent with powerfist is easlily countered by adding an additional fury. Furthermore should the furies outnumber the opponent it gets very ugly very fast for the marines.
    Furies are pretty much garenteed the charge due to the special rules for their summoning, and their speed.

    Furies are probably one of the most underestimated units in the chaos arsinal. . . and are quite capable of handleing themselves against most opponents. Marines are not an exception.

    I suggest Caluin knew exactly what he was doing putting them in there.
    Votewar MKV 2nd place. . .

    Back from internet limbo, and glad to be here.

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