2000 points fast undivided - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

Welcome to Librarium Online!

Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!

Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!


Register Now!

User Tag List

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 15
  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    100
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    17 (x1)

    2000 points fast undivided

    Ok, this isnt an exact list as I don't have my book but it is generally the direction I will be heading in. This is my first army list so any "your a noob because _____" or "this would be better served by ______" is very welcome

    The goal was for a balanced fast attack army with good tank destruction and summoning for troop distraction as I get my 3 squads of marines in place correctly.


    Overview.
    HQ Lieutant on bike w/retinue sorcerer winds of chaos, daemon armor

    ELITE aspiring chosen on bike, 1 sorcere w/ winds of chaos, daemon armor, melta
    x3aspiring chosen on bike, wolf fodder to take hits, daemon armor, meltas

    Troops, X3 ten man squads of marines in rhinos, champ with power fist, misc weapon upgrades.

    x3 Nerglings to be deployed around dread nought to serve as cannon fodder.

    Fast attack
    x3 bikers w/meltas sign on chaos
    x7 Furies
    x7 Furies

    Heavy support
    Ranged oriented Dreadnought w/ neglings for fodder in case LOS is lost.

    Havocs w/ auto cannon, las cannon, missle launcher and heavy bolter.
    Total is roughly 2000 points.
    Below is a more detailed list the above is just an over view.

    HQ
    chaos leiutnant on bike
    sorcerer
    bike w/ melta
    winds
    armor
    bionics


    Elites
    aspiting chosen on bikes with meltas
    x4 wolfs
    winds of chaos and sorcere on one
    daemon armor
    (misc upgrades? keeping total under 400)


    Troops. X3 squads more or less identical to the below
    Dreadnought fodder
    x3 nerglings
    marine tactic squads.
    X10 chaos marines
    rhino
    x1 flamer
    frag
    champion
    power fist
    daemonic str
    furious charge
    mark of chaos
    spiky bits


    Heavy Support
    Unit of havocs x8 /w infilitrate
    x1 autocannon
    x1 lascannon
    x1 missle launcher
    x1 heavy bolter

    Dread Nought
    las cannon
    missle launcher



    Fast attack
    x3 melta bike squad with summoning icon

    x7 furies
    x7 furies

    for bigger, add on 2 furies, or subtract 2


    Total is Roughly 2000 points, theory is you run up bikes on either side with the 2+ invulnerable, summon in furies if troops press in and use them to distract while the delicate rhinos get squads into good positions. Dreadnought and havocs attempt to take on any heavy armor and neglings act as fodder. The bike squads will hopefully take out any ordanance and heavy tanks that the dread/havocs cant get to then retreat behind the now positioned marines who will play defense to the know long range crippled army who will be forced to advance.

    that's the theory anyway, how am I wrong and whY? lol

    Last edited by snarl of disgust; August 16th, 2006 at 01:58.

  2. Remove Advertisements
    Librarium-Online.com
    Advertisements
     

  3. #2
    KITTENS GIVE MORBO GAS! theyak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Bay Area, California, USA
    Posts
    3,922
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation
    385 (x8)

    Hello Snarl, before I go through your list, the individual points costs for upgrades and such need to be taken off first. Please read through the rules:
    http://www.librarium-online.com/forums/faq.php

    Second, some of the points costs for the upgrades are wrong.

    I'm also having some trouble reading your list, its pretty jumbled. Please, for the sake of people trying to help you, organize and proof read your list. for example you have 882 points for your troops section, but it certainly doesn't look like there are that many troops, are there multiple squads?

    As for some general comments:

    bike squads should not be minimal, they are too easy to kill off or make run away then. One casualty and you're having to check to see if they run for the hills, 2 casualties and they cannot rally.

    It sounds like you may best be served going with night lords with the style of play you want. Nurglings can only be taken if you have units with the mark of nurgle on the board(I didn't see any)

    your chosen are way over expensive for four guys, that's just asking for trouble.

    As they are equipped, your havocs are utterly close to worthless.
    I suggest my favorite build for havocs:
    8-havocs, Tank hunters, Infiltrate, 4x autocannons or missile launchers.
    Havocs will take casualties, you need at least equal number of cannon fodder to heavy weapons.

    Daemonic strength on a powerfisted champion is kinda superfulous, and should only exist if you have nothing better to spend your points on.

    Might I suggest some raptors instead of something up there?
    W/D/L Eleventy trillion billion/NONE/ NONE - I am STILL rulezor!
    WINDMILLS DO NOT WORK THAT WAY!

  4. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    100
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    17 (x1)

    I'm not to worried about the bike squad getting picked on as it's movement should allow me to hide it well and it's 3 or 2 invulnerable save seems pretty hardy.

    Nurglings, it says in the book you can only have 1 unit per unit with the mark of nurgle or independent character and I have a lieutnant so this is kosher correct?

    Infiltrating the havocs is a good call i'm going to do that, the reason the weapons they have now are configured is because I got a great deal on some used space wolf minis that I am modding for chaos
    (2 rhino , 1 predator, 45 marines misc configured x6 hvy weapon marines, termy lord, tech preiest lord, and another lord I dont recognize, plus 6 bikes and a slew of bits and a carrying case all for 100$)***EDIT*** also a dreadnought

    The reason I did not go with raptors as opposed to the furies is cost and the ability to summon furies where and when you need them (that and I have 20 furies and no raptors).

    as far as the indiviual champion equipment it is the only thing I could think of, this list is more of a rough draft.

    anyone else? thanks for your input yak
    Last edited by snarl of disgust; August 16th, 2006 at 01:38.

  5. #4
    KITTENS GIVE MORBO GAS! theyak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Bay Area, California, USA
    Posts
    3,922
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation
    385 (x8)

    the independent character must be nurgle marked for it to count to be able to summon nurglings.
    Basically, the nurglings "follow" units into battle, and unless someone who is higher up and follows nurgle is there, they have absolutely no reason to show up.

    Bikes are bigger and are a bit more difficult to keep completely out of LOS. they WILL get shot up, and as it stands they are fragile.

    Furies are not a bad choice, don't get me wrong, I think raptors are well worth their points and very tactically flexable.

    good job on cleaning up the original post BTW, much easier to understand.
    W/D/L Eleventy trillion billion/NONE/ NONE - I am STILL rulezor!
    WINDMILLS DO NOT WORK THAT WAY!

  6. #5
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    100
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    17 (x1)

    Quote Originally Posted by theyak
    the independent character must be nurgle marked for it to count to be able to summon nurglings.
    Basically, the nurglings "follow" units into battle, and unless someone who is higher up and follows nurgle is there, they have absolutely no reason to show up.
    I'm not going to directly quote the rules because i'm sure that's not legit but it says to the effect "your collection of plastic and pewter dudes may only include one unit of nurglings for each "independent plastic or pewter dude" OR unit with the mark of nurgle."

    "independent plastic or pewter dude"

    thats the part that gets me, it doesnt say it has to be a nurgle independent.

    While what your saying makes sense in game i'm just going off the rules. Plus I like the idea of a bunch of nurglings crawling on a dreadnought and the dreadnoguht occasionally stomping them good and blasting them with lascannon shots.

  7. #6
    KITTENS GIVE MORBO GAS! theyak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Bay Area, California, USA
    Posts
    3,922
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation
    385 (x8)

    Snarl, you are wrong. period. I'm sorry to put it to you in this way, but the rule you are paraphrasing is on pg 31, under "CHILDREN OF FATHER NURGLE" It clearly states that they follow champions of nurgle, a unit of nurglings can only be included per character or unit WITH THE MARK OF NURGLE. very clearly predicated that the modifier is intended to address BOTH subjects in the sentence being the UNIT and the INDEPENDENT CHARACTER.

    As stated, you have none, and thus cannot include nurglings until such time that you have appropriately marked troops, period.
    W/D/L Eleventy trillion billion/NONE/ NONE - I am STILL rulezor!
    WINDMILLS DO NOT WORK THAT WAY!

  8. #7
    Sadomachiatto Karmoon's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Frankfurt, Germany
    Posts
    7,076
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    ReputationReputation
    790 (x8)

    C'mon man, your list is 99% legal if you get rid of the nurglings. They're not much of a shield for the dreadnought anyway, as very very few things are suicidal enough to engage a dread in CC, and the dreadnought can be picked out with shooting very easily.

    The Yak is one of the most helpfull people on these forums, he's not getting at you. I strongly suggest you heed his advice.

    Also, your havocs really do need to be sorted out. I understand that you've probably got the shiny boxed set, but you'll find that they're only occasionally usefull. It's much better to quadruple up on one specific weapon and have them very good at one thing. Tank hunting autocannons provide the best of all worlds. Good range, Good power, Average AP and excellent Rate of fire. Remember 40K is based on buckets of dice mechanics - the more you roll, the better.
    The only thing they can't touch is monoliths. They'll have trouble with some AV14 vehicles. I would strongly suggest some obliterators, although your biker meltas will complement them nicely.

    With regards to the HQ - it's a nice gimic, but bear in mind that they're not invincible, so turbo charge wisely. even with a 2+ invulnerable, a hail of bolter fire will get through and will give you some wounds. You still need to use cover and LOS.
    I would definitely give your bikers 'skilled riders' veteran ability.

    Good luck
    LO Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymous
    Anyone who's as loyal and motivated to doing what they love as you are is respectable in my book
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyric
    I'm taking leave of my senses and shall be out of my mind until further notice.

  9. #8
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    100
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    17 (x1)

    Quote Originally Posted by theyak
    Snarl, you are wrong. period. I'm sorry to put it to you in this way, but the rule you are paraphrasing is on pg 31, under "CHILDREN OF FATHER NURGLE" It clearly states that they follow champions of nurgle, a unit of nurglings can only be included per character or unit WITH THE MARK OF NURGLE. very clearly predicated that the modifier is intended to address BOTH subjects in the sentence being the UNIT and the INDEPENDENT CHARACTER.

    As stated, you have none, and thus cannot include nurglings until such time that you have appropriately marked troops, period.

    Actually, It reads ON QUOTE this on page 31"CHILDREN OF FATHER NURGLE: nurglings TEND to follow in the shadow of the champions of nurgle consequently an army may only include one unit of nurglings for EACH INDEPENDENT CHARACTER or unit with the mark of nurgle."

    not "each independent character with the mark of nurgle or unit with the mark of nurgle" If i'm wrong its not because of me its because the rules are vague and worded poorly.

    I would call the GW hotline to find of exactly one way or the other but im not that dedicated, if someone else wants to let us know

    And the nurglings aren't for shield they are for fodder incase the dradnought wigs out and doesnt have enemy LOS as stated in my first post.

    I'm not being argumentative just stating what the rules say and giving my view of them, luckily we have the GW hotline and won't argue forever about this like some other "famous rule books" ie. the bible.
    Last edited by snarl of disgust; August 16th, 2006 at 16:50.

  10. #9
    Sadomachiatto Karmoon's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Frankfurt, Germany
    Posts
    7,076
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    ReputationReputation
    790 (x8)

    Quote Originally Posted by Karmoon
    Good luck
    ..finding an opponent.
    LO Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymous
    Anyone who's as loyal and motivated to doing what they love as you are is respectable in my book
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyric
    I'm taking leave of my senses and shall be out of my mind until further notice.

  11. #10
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    100
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    17 (x1)

    Quote Originally Posted by Karmoon
    With regards to the HQ - it's a nice gimic, but bear in mind that they're not invincible, so turbo charge wisely. even with a 2+ invulnerable, a hail of bolter fire will get through and will give you some wounds. You still need to use cover and LOS.
    I would definitely give your bikers 'skilled riders' veteran ability.

    Good luck
    Good call with the skilled riders. But I disagree with the them getting shot up, here is some fuzzy math.

    i did some averaging in favor of the marines attacking my bikers here.


    20 stationary marines w/bolters
    40 shots at bs4 66% hit 26 hits average
    26 wounds at toughness 5 str 4 30% wounds average 8 wounds
    2+ save rough average of 1.3 wounds

    That's one turn with 20 marines shooting at my bikes assuming they are within 12 with no cover
    Even then 1 wound is taken by one of the 4 wolfs that are there for fodder.

    Lets do it again assuming its a heavy weapon squad with 10 marines x4 heavy bolters and I am still within 12


    4 heavy bolters and 6 bolters
    12 heavy bolter shots with 66% hit, roughly 7 hits
    12 shots bolters shots with 66% hit roughly 7 hits
    7 str 5 hits, wounds 50% 3.5 wounds
    7 str 4 hits, wounds 33% 2.1 wounds
    2+ save 1 unsaved wound

    Total we will say 2-3 unsaved wounds with both squads firing.

    Now lets assume the group of heavy weapons and marines both shot at me.
    They would accomplish on average of killing two-three 12 point units.
    Not exactly a good move.

    average it would take me placing them poorly for two turns just to take 4 wounds. This is na average though and the worst can happen. But If I can occupy roughly 400 points of units for 2 turns at the cost of 48 points of wolves I think it's a good call, anyone have anything to the contrary or holes in my math? I did it in my head on the spot so im sure i messed up somewhere
    Last edited by snarl of disgust; August 16th, 2006 at 19:34.

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts