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Hi. This is my first post ever and I'm also brand spanking new to Warhammer. I've been reading a lot about it and decided on the Thousand Sons as my first army. I've been reading up on all the posts and almost all the TSons post recommended Andusciassus as the TSon guru so most of this army follows a lot of his previous suggestions but most ideas=more pandemonium so let er rip.
Powerfist & Bolt pistol
Wind of Chaos
9xTSon marines w/ free Asp Champ upgrade
Powerfist & Bolt Pistol
Wind of Chaos
2x Thralls 262pts
9xTSon marines (exactly same as above)
Defiler w/ indirect fire 175pts
w/ Twin linked L.C. 125pts
w/ dual CCW 90pts
Ok. I love the sleeper powerfist ideas and the spells can be switched around to deal with whoever's getting outta line. I really like Wind for dealing with any fast units going for CC. Try and lay a lot of wounds down with a template then go at it. I went with the modest HQ and Asp Champs since the Thousand Sons are usually small groups and I don't wanna loose my uber 200pts whatchamacallit to a lucky shot early in the match. My defiler is fairly no brainer I think. The first dreadnaught is to drop some heavy shots and possibly help in CC if needed. The second dread is pure in your face whooping stick. I figure with how slow my Sons will be moving, a dread going CC will one: keep pace with my troops, two: draw fire while the troops get into position, three: HURT SOMEONE REAL GOOD. Let me know what you think.
Last edited by j_madrox; September 5th, 2006 at 17:32.
First, welcome to LO!
A word of warning, Thousand Sons is a tough list to play. Even expert players find it a hard list to win with. However, that should not deter you! With time and experience you will find what works and doesn't work for you and your win/lose ratio will improve. If you are really excited about space sorcerors then you should run with it. Warhammer is supposed to be fun. Just don't fret if you find it challenging at first.
As for your list, you may want to consider dropping your winds of chaos for either doombolt or bolt of change. On a footslogging unit flamers can be tricky to make effective. Worse still you are slow and purposeful so it is even harder. BOC and doombolt will improve your damage output without any finesse.
As for the defiler, I think it will be a nice compliment for this list. My only word of warning is that in low to medium point games (around 1000) ordinance can be less rewarding as your scatters won't go into other enemy units but instead may fall dead. You may want to save the defiler until you goto 1500 points.
As for the dreads, I think you have a good idea. Most on LO don't like dreads, but I am a strong fan. However, what I have learned is they do great support and should be able to act in multiple roles. I would suggest your CC dread is too slow with no units that hold down enemies for him to catch them. Also, without a gun he will find it hard to consistantly make his points back. A TS list is light on big guns so adding on a gun to him would improve the whole team.
Other good TS units to look at are Rubric Terminators and the flamer daemons. Both are powerful units and may do well by you.
Also, look more at using rhinos. Not super great for story but they add two abilities TS can benifit from. First, they allow your units to get more quickly to where they need to be. In missions with objectives you may have to move aggressivly to positions and hold them. This will help you a lot. Second, they can act as a mobile wall. This trick takes a bit of time to master, but with practice you can shorten your enemies range by denying him LOS on units or sections of the battlefield.
Yeah I screwed up when I was adding up points. I'm gonna have to drop my CC dread and I think I'm gonna add a Blasted Standard to one of my troops. That should help out if someone charges. Pop the standard and hope a lot off those wounds land then retaliate in my assault. I know a lot of people don't use the WoC much but I can easily switch it up for doombolt and then add a thrall for the leftover points. This list is more for a meat grinder mission. For secure and control, I'd drop the standard for a rhino and maybe swap out the defiler for a few rubric termies, another rhino, and send them along with my Sorcerer to cause some trouble.
The Tzeentch section isn't clear on this point but only units of Chosen can take a special standard such as the Blasted Standard.
You keep referencing using powers against a charge. Unfortunately you can't do shooting except in your own shooting phase so it is pretty easy for enemy units to get into close combat with you without you getting a shot off if your range is too short. Blasted standard has the same issue as the WOC in that on a slow moving unit you may never get to use it.
The B.S. is legal for Asp Champs as far as I read. But I did go over the points limit for him so I'm gonna have to drop it (probably for a rhino).
I like WoC cause if my opponent is gonna charge in his next turn, I wanna screw that up as much as possible since rubrics are much better at shooting than CC. The way I see it, their obviously close (unless they have fleet) so I can move forward and shoot as if I hadn't moved (first paragraph of Slow and Purposeful, Book of Tzeentch) for maximum shots plus getting a few models under my WoC template. Then if possible (distance wise) charge them. I won't get the +1 bonus but neither will they not to mention the pain I've already induced so far can help me win the assault.
Keep the ideas flowing and thank you for replying Student.
I first would like to welcome you both here, even if it seems j_madrox has been with us for quite some time.
The Sons are indeed quite a tricky bunch to take intobattle but they are also most capable to take a good beating and return more pain then the average opponent can handle.
It is however very important to try to keep away from Close Combat as long as possible, especially if you do not have dedicated units for this task. Medium long range fire is where we excell.
This brings me to your choice of spells.
Wind of Chaos combined with thralls is an awsome spell, but it takes carefull manouvering to get to use it. this kind of movement is only gained by going in a Rhino. A footslogging unit, like yours will be blown to piecesby missile launchers and other evil contraptions...battle cannon comes to mind. And you'll have nothing but a Dread and a Defiler to counter them.
Even if you can get your units int a good place to use wind of Chaos- it'll soon be over. One round of fiering, then a charge. Bogged down in quite a few rounds. The rubrics won't kill anything and the champ will take one- three guys a turn. Those battles can last forever and don't forget we're not he only ones hiding Powerfists.
This brings me to the powerfist carried by your HQ. Never give an Independent Character powerfist, it'll be the death of him.
In CC ICs are treated as separate units so he'll be targeted as an individual if he is in base to base with any enemy. This means they'll hit him first. You should take advantage of the high initiative that comes with this guy. If I'm not misaking aDarkblade is just as expensive as a Powerfist and you'll still wound most opponents on 2+.
You should also take care of his great BS.
Any sorcerer will be as efficient using Wind, but a spell like Bolt of Change really excells when used by a HQ. Doombolt is also a very, very good choice when used on such a skilled person and enhanced by thralls it's just as potent an anti MEQ as Bolt of Change and against units with a 4+ save or worse:shifty: it's just plain nasty.
1000 points ain't much when you pick your units from the book of Tzeentch, so make sure each and every unit does what they are designed to do. Be equally specific about giving each unit a certain task. One Anti-personel, one anti tank, one CC-unit.
Now, as many armies will be allover your lines before you have time to move out of your deployment zone it's equally important to make them all (both in you case) ready for CC. This is where the Familiar comes in handy. Give the Champs a familiar and Gift of Chaos. This little spell will let you turn any hidden powerfists or powerweapon wielding vet.sarges into crazy killing machines...fighting for you, not against you.
So to sum this up I'd like to have your HQ playing more of a shooty-role. Doombolt or Bolt of Change.
One Unit of Sons still on foot, having the same spell as the HQ, have the HQ join this unit for complete havoc.
One unit in a Rhino, give the Champ Gift, familiar and Wind add some Thralls. Drop a few Rubrics if you need the space. Gear this Champ for CC and don't save point here. Mutation and Spikybitz are a great addition.
Keep the Rhino out of LoS as long as it takes. It's better not to use him at all then to have him shot down turn 1.
Maybe have only 2 HS choices to shave some points, and make sure they have the potential to take out tanks. The Defiler is actually very good at this I might add, with a bit of luck on the scatter dice he'll take out any heavy tank and when he is using his Reaper those skimmers are deadmeat.
ok so I tooled up the troops for some CC like you said. Definately makes makes sense although I had to drop my dreadnaughts to make room for points. I have come up with a question though. Do thralls count towards a rhinos max carrying capacity? I was reading some forums and they started some doubts in my mind. They have a profile so I wouldn't put them in the same category as a familiar. I can honestly say I don't know anything about thralls. They can't be armed but can they attack or can I use them to take a wound if they're technically part of the squad. Anyways here's the new list.
MoT, BoC, D.Aura, 3Thralls, Bolter and Darkblade 142pts
MoT, Powerfist & BP, Familiar, GoC, WoC, 2Thralls, D. Mutation, Spikey 317pts
Same but will drop a few Marines to fit into a rhino if thats how thralls work out.
Defiler w/ indirect fire 175pts
I would love to get a dreadnaught in there cause I love the look. Only way I can think off getting it into the list is by only having one troop with the extra CC stuff and dropping all familiars and second powers. Even then I'd have to drop some rubrics from one of my squads.
Here's what I came up with.
MoT, Doombolt, D.Aura, 3Thralls, Bolter and Power Weapon 117pts
(So if he's hiding from CC why would he need a demon weapon and I had to drop BoC down to a doombolt)
MoT, Powerfist & BP, GoC, 2Thralls, D. Mutation, Spikey 282pts
(still has a lot of the CC stuff like the other group)
MoT, Powerfist & BP, GoC, 3Thralls, D. Mutation, Spikey 252pts
(depending on the ruling for thralls in rhinos I dropped 2 TSons but I made sure the rhino was full by maxing out the squad with thralls)
Defiler w/ indirect fire 175pts
Dreadnaught w/twin L.C. 125pts
(yay my dread)
The question is will the tooled up troops be more benificial than the TL LC.