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  1. #1
    Member kensei81's Avatar
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    500 point death guard (Help!!)

    hey all,

    i need help! my death guard army needs some tweaking, cause i'm not getting the best from my troops:

    HQ
    Leuitenant - Manreaper, Deamonic Strength [90]

    TROOPS
    7 Plague Marines - Bolter + CCW [148]
    Aspiring Champ - P.fist, bolter

    7 Plague Marines - Bolt pistol + CCW [148]
    Aspiring Champ - P.Sword, bolt pistol, Deamonic Strength

    7 Plague Bearers [112]

    TOTAL - 498 points

    i'm playing against black templars, who for the same points get 18 marines (plamsa and heavy weapons, chaplain and a land speeder) , so the lack of plasma is killing me i think, but i need the troops out there!

    considering that the plague bearer's nurgle's rot rarely takes out a meq (1 in 6 to affect, and 1 in 3 to kill) are these guys worther their bacon? is there something else i could take?

    also, would people field the leuitenant as part of the p.sword marine squad, or on his own? i know people talk about juicy targets

    thanks for your time

    cheers

    kensei the unlcean one


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  3. #2
    KITTENS GIVE MORBO GAS! theyak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kensei81 View Post
    hey all,
    Hello back kensei!, do you intend your name to mean: live by the sword(sword life), a swordsman, or the D&D prestige class(yeah, I'm a uber dork) Or something completely different?
    Quote Originally Posted by kensei81 View Post
    i need help! my death guard army needs some tweaking, cause i'm not getting the best from my troops:
    I'll see what I can do!
    Quote Originally Posted by kensei81 View Post

    HQ
    Leuitenant - Manreaper, Deamonic Strength [90]
    First off, kudos for trying to keep him cheap and efficient, but there's nothing that's protecting this guy from anything(like a hidden powerfist) *squish* pop. no more HQ.
    Manreaper is awesome, but at this points level you should really either invest in daemonic Aura to help protect your investment or pick a cheaper weapon.
    Quote Originally Posted by kensei81 View Post

    TROOPS
    7 Plague Marines - Bolter + CCW [148]
    Aspiring Champ - P.fist, bolter
    Alright, aspiring champ, I know he has true grit, but you CAN give him a bolt pistol to get that juicy 4 attacks on the charge.
    These guys need a little special weapon flair. I suggest a melta or two.
    Quote Originally Posted by kensei81 View Post

    7 Plague Marines - Bolt pistol + CCW [148]
    Aspiring Champ - P.Sword, bolt pistol, Deamonic Strength
    I would swap out the D.Strength and P.Sword for the Powerfist. As tough as your guys are, its like they're designed for the attrition game. Again, give them a melta or pair.
    Quote Originally Posted by kensei81 View Post

    7 Plague Bearers [112]
    Um... no. I realize they are daemons, but I'd rather see nurglings over plague bearers unless you expect to see a LOT of TMCs or Wraith lords. Use the points to kit out your squads appropriately. Even if it means tossing extra marines in the squads to "break" favored status.. so what?
    Quote Originally Posted by kensei81 View Post

    TOTAL - 498 points

    i'm playing against black templars, who for the same points get 18 marines (plamsa and heavy weapons, chaplain and a land speeder) , so the lack of plasma is killing me i think, but i need the troops out there!
    Alright BTs are really nasty even in small numbers, especially since he's taking a chappy.
    Plasmas will be your friends, if you want to anti-MEQ your list out, then take all plasmaguns(shudder) I normally don't advise plasmaguns for deathguard because it completely ignores their great toughness, but if you want to kit them out to kill meqs, there's nothin better in the armory for that.
    Quote Originally Posted by kensei81 View Post


    considering that the plague bearer's nurgle's rot rarely takes out a meq (1 in 6 to affect, and 1 in 3 to kill) are these guys worther their bacon? is there something else i could take?
    NO. Yes, more marines, and special weapons for your marines.
    Quote Originally Posted by kensei81 View Post

    also, would people field the leuitenant as part of the p.sword marine squad, or on his own? i know people talk about juicy targets
    Ok, so here's what I suggest: if you want to specifically counter the chaplain, you will need/want the following. My favorite way of sniping a marine HQs: darkblade, furious charge and daemonic strength, I6 str 8 on the charge, the chappy misses ONE invul and it goes POP. then you dogpile the enemy squad with the rest of your boys. If you can fenagle your points, go with this one.

    Quote Originally Posted by kensei81 View Post

    thanks for your time

    cheers

    kensei the unlcean one
    Any time.
    W/D/L Eleventy trillion billion/NONE/ NONE - I am STILL rulezor!
    WINDMILLS DO NOT WORK THAT WAY!

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    Hm

    I agree with the_yak 100%. The HQ with a manreaper is expensive and will most likely only get 1 round of combat with it before dying. P.Fist ACs are always great unless u have an init advantage like Slaanesh, and at 500 pts Daemons are a little too unpredictable to make up such a large percentage of your army.

    I would say get rid of the Plague Bearers and add nurglings. Then upgrade your HQ with what the Yak said... i use a similar build myself for my MEQ HQ killer. You should still have enough points to add some extra plaguebearers. If not, then I would definately try to stay within the sacred number constraint at this point level. Don't want to beef up that HQ too much, and the more troops the better even against Black Templars.

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    May I reccomend nurgle's rot on your aspiring champions and/or hq? It's dirt cheap, even if it only killed a single marine all game it would be worth the points you paid for it. I'd do this especially if you lose the plague bearers.

    Listen to theyak about the special weapons, it'll really help your firepower. I'm a fan of nurglings, as well. Good luck with your list.

  6. #5
    The other Kind of Fluff Rabbit's Avatar
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    Theyak did a good job summing up the problems. There are a few places where my suggestions will differ:

    1- Manreaper: If you plan on putting this guy in c.c. by himself, then by all means, take yak's advice. However, if he's joining a squad, then the h.q. is perfect the way he is.

    2- Plasma guns: As a D.G. players, this weapon is the bread and butter of my army. Especially in low point value games where you don't expect to see many heavily armored vehicles. If the templar players isn't using any vehicle with an armor value above 11, I would highly suggest taking (like yak) two plasma's in each squad. If he's playing with a med/heavy vehicle, then put melta guns in the squads. BTW, the lack of special weapons contributes to your difficulty -vs- B.T. more than any other single element.

    3- Plague Bearers & Nurgle's Rot: These are not good options against any other 3+ army. Plague Bearers don't have the killing or staying power to make their points back, and Nurgle's Rot only kills 1/16 marines. Save the points, especially in small battles when you know your opponent is playing a 3+ army.

  7. #6
    KITTENS GIVE MORBO GAS! theyak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boydgarrett View Post
    Theyak did a good job summing up the problems. There are a few places where my suggestions will differ:

    1- Manreaper: If you plan on putting this guy in c.c. by himself, then by all means, take yak's advice. However, if he's joining a squad, then the h.q. is perfect the way he is.
    Actually Bunnyman, unless the HQ's joining chosen its far better to run him solo. Since the squad's not a retinue he'll still have to fulfill all the IC close combat requirements(treated as a separate unit), allowing the HQ to be picked out just as easily in CC.
    W/D/L Eleventy trillion billion/NONE/ NONE - I am STILL rulezor!
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  8. #7
    Member kensei81's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theyak View Post
    Hello back kensei!, do you intend your name to mean: live by the sword(sword life), a swordsman, or the D&D prestige class(yeah, I'm a uber dork) Or something completely different?
    The name's from miyamoto musashi, and historically it's one of the names he chosewas given. it translates to "sword saint". i'm a bit of a medival japan nut, and practise kendo/kenjitsu myself (though not to his ability)

    okay then taking everyone's advice, here's the new 500 point death guard list:

    Lieutenant - D. Blade, F. Charge, D. Aura, D. Strength p.pistol [130]
    7 P. Marines - Bolter & CCW 2xplasmagun (AC with p.fist + bolt pistol) [173]
    7 P. Marines - Bolt Pistol & CCW, 2xmelta (AC with p.fist + bolt pistol) [173]
    3 nurgling bases [30]

    Total - 501 points

    little bit of conversion required, but it seems better. just worried about numbers really

    well, let me know if this is better/requires tweaking

    cheers,

    kensei

  9. #8
    señor brushman! brushman's Avatar
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    I think your Lt. could be a bit reconfigured. Right now, you're running at strength 8 on the charge. In 500 point battles, it's not really neccesary. I think strength 6 is fine. You could lose some points for other areas of the army by simply removing D. Strength, and Furious Charge. This gives you 25 points to play around with. Aside from that, it looks pretty good.

    With those 25 points you save from the above amendment, you can add add in 3 more nurglings, as well as a cheap 5 point upgrade on your lt, such as D. Visage, Bionics, etc.

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    yikes

    You sure beefed up those squads. I think the lord is okay for use against MEQs... its nice when one model can take out an entire squad. However, I think you need more models. 14 marines and 3 plague bearers might make you overly vulnerable to fast armies and just sheer numbers. That is part of the problem with playing a legion though. I would try out that list and see how it works for you... the only concern I would have is the lack of firepower. You have tons of CC and some special weapons, but footslogging up the board at 6" a time can be dangerous and you want to maintain as much of your troop integrity as you can, otherwise your P. Fist AC will be taking wounds before he should.

    I personally, when playing a cult army, like to have one squad of ranged and one squad of cc with a super lord (unless playing higher I armies).

  11. #10
    The other Kind of Fluff Rabbit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theyak View Post
    Actually Bunnyman, unless the HQ's joining chosen its far better to run him solo. Since the squad's not a retinue he'll still have to fulfill all the IC close combat requirements(treated as a separate unit), allowing the HQ to be picked out just as easily in CC.
    Are you sure? I was always under the impression that when an I.C. joins a unit , he is treated as a squad member for all combat purposes.

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