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  1. #1
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    2000 pt black legion, enjoy

    well i know you guys will hate it but i love it so there....

    HQ
    Khorne Daemon Prince
    berzerker glaive, stature, armor, essessence, feel no pain
    160

    Elites
    3 obliterators
    210

    Troops
    6 csm undivided 2 plasma guns infiltrate
    128

    6 csm undivided 2 plasma guns infiltrate
    128

    6 csm undivided 2 plasma guns infiltrate
    128

    6 csm undivided 2 plasma guns infiltrate
    128

    6 csm undivided lascannon tank hunters
    123

    6 csm undivided lascannon tank hunters
    123

    Fast
    3 bikers undivided 2 plasma guns
    125

    3 bikers undivided 2 plasma guns
    125

    3 bikers undivided 2 plasma guns
    125

    Heavy
    defiler
    150

    defiler
    150

    defiler
    150

    points 1953
    50 models
    3 vehicles

    yeah i know no one has any faith in defilers or bikes but i do.... so smash my list appart. do your worst. cause i think it's tops! what to do with the extra points. i was thinkin maybe go for two infiltrating squads of nurgle marines with 2 plasma for the price of 2 undivided plasma squads plus 48 more points. any how what do you think?

    and remember if you are not creative i will hold it against you!

    hehe


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  3. #2
    KITTENS GIVE MORBO GAS! theyak's Avatar
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    Heya purple, so, if you think its so tops, is it worth commenting, or will you just defend every point everyone makes? I'm just kidding, but that happens a lot.
    Quote Originally Posted by purple40k View Post
    well i know you guys will hate it but i love it so there....

    HQ
    Khorne Daemon Prince
    berzerker glaive, stature, armor, essessence, feel no pain
    160
    I've got no problem with stature glaived princes, I think they are badass!
    He's a big fire magnet, and he's heading towards your enemy's lines at breakneck speed. just be careful of your scattering ord. At least he has D.Armor to protect himself in the event of such unfortunate doom.

    Quote Originally Posted by purple40k View Post
    Elites
    3 obliterators
    210
    OOh, yeah, no problemo here.
    Quote Originally Posted by purple40k View Post

    Troops
    6 csm undivided 2 plasma guns infiltrate
    128

    6 csm undivided 2 plasma guns infiltrate
    128

    6 csm undivided 2 plasma guns infiltrate
    128

    6 csm undivided 2 plasma guns infiltrate
    128
    Youch 4 of these squads, they're good, but they're risky, especially since they do their most damage at 12'', that's one turn away from being charged, I would just suggest making sure you always field them near eachother so they can concentrate fire if they need to.
    Against MEQ lists, this set of boys will do awesome, against orks/nids, not so well.
    I might only suggest to swap out two squads for either meltaguns for tank busting, or add in heavy bolters in a pair of squads. to even it out a bit. Whatever you do, do it in pairs.

    Quote Originally Posted by purple40k View Post

    6 csm undivided lascannon tank hunters
    123

    6 csm undivided lascannon tank hunters
    123
    With obliterators on the board, I think these guys suck, they're one shot per squad, you're harboring one shot a turn in 6 men. I would personally rather see them as a pair of meltaguns up supporting your other 4 squads.
    Quote Originally Posted by purple40k View Post

    Fast
    3 bikers undivided 2 plasma guns
    125

    3 bikers undivided 2 plasma guns
    125

    3 bikers undivided 2 plasma guns
    125
    Yeah, so far, this is the only squad that I "hate" rapid firing plasmas from expensive models, you lose one to overheat and you're at 25%, you just did half of the work for your oponent for VPs, and your oponent needs to kill a paltry one guy to try to make them run.

    I would suggest making them two squads of 5

    Quote Originally Posted by purple40k View Post

    Heavy
    defiler
    150

    defiler
    150

    defiler
    150
    Defilers are cool, I personally like their idea. I would put a predator in the mix instead though, you are sorely SORELY lacking on the anti tank. Sorry, but 2 one-shot squads of 6 guys and obliterators(these guys help, REALLY they do) but nothing to really anchor your anti tank efforts.

    Quote Originally Posted by purple40k View Post

    points 1953
    50 models
    3 vehicles

    yeah i know no one has any faith in defilers or bikes but i do.... so smash my list appart. do your worst. cause i think it's tops! what to do with the extra points. i was thinkin maybe go for two infiltrating squads of nurgle marines with 2 plasma for the price of 2 undivided plasma squads plus 48 more points. any how what do you think?

    and remember if you are not creative i will hold it against you!

    hehe
    Well, I don't think its too bad, I personally think each squad is a bit skimpy, but that's the idea behind it. Fast moving assaulters will really mess up your day, so will lhordes who don't give a crap about armor saves.
    W/D/L Eleventy trillion billion/NONE/ NONE - I am STILL rulezor!
    WINDMILLS DO NOT WORK THAT WAY!

  4. #3
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    Now that is some serious redundancy! Good job.

    Your prince needs d. strength and d. resilience. D. strength will curve c.c. towards your favor, and d. resilience will help stop those pesky small shots from getting through. These two upgrades should be automatic all virtually every c.c. lord.
    Spambot kill tally. . .337

  5. #4
    KITTENS GIVE MORBO GAS! theyak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rabbit View Post
    Now that is some serious redundancy! Good job.

    Your prince needs d. strength and d. resilience. D. strength will curve c.c. towards your favor, and d. resilience will help stop those pesky small shots from getting through. These two upgrades should be automatic all virtually every c.c. lord.
    Well, since he's statured, I don't think D.str is "needed" per se, but meh.
    I do ammend with a need for an extra wound though. This guy will attract a lot of fire, period.
    The longer he stays alive the better for you!
    W/D/L Eleventy trillion billion/NONE/ NONE - I am STILL rulezor!
    WINDMILLS DO NOT WORK THAT WAY!

  6. #5
    LO's Shadow Captain Lost Nemesis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by purple40k View Post
    HQ
    Khorne Daemon Prince
    berzerker glaive, stature, armor, essessence, feel no pain
    160
    Resilience and Strength before Essence. Nothing like wounding MEQs on a 2+ and having the toughness to stand up to Plasma Guns without worrying too much. The extra wound won't do much at all for you, and should only be considered after Strength and Resilience are firmly in place, in my opinion.

  7. #6
    KITTENS GIVE MORBO GAS! theyak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lost Nemesis View Post
    Resilience and Strength before Essence. Nothing like wounding MEQs on a 2+ and having the toughness to stand up to Plasma Guns without worrying too much. The extra wound won't do much at all for you, and should only be considered after Strength and Resilience are firmly in place, in my opinion.
    I completely agree that the resilieance before essence, but on a statured beast, I think strength is an option(though a nice one).
    W/D/L Eleventy trillion billion/NONE/ NONE - I am STILL rulezor!
    WINDMILLS DO NOT WORK THAT WAY!

  8. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by theyak View Post
    I completely agree that the resilieance before essence, but on a statured beast, I think strength is an option(though a nice one).
    I personally think that Strength is better than Essence, if you have to pick one or the other, especially on a Statured/Glaive Lord with FNP. The Essence is for staying power, which the Lord already has an abundant amount of - now, you need to worry about his hitting power. He's got a nice number of attacks, but wounds MEQs on a 3+. The difference between a 2+ and a 3+ may not seem like much when reading it, but on the table it is an amazing advantage.

  9. #8
    KITTENS GIVE MORBO GAS! theyak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lost Nemesis View Post
    I personally think that Strength is better than Essence, if you have to pick one or the other, especially on a Statured/Glaive Lord with FNP. The Essence is for staying power, which the Lord already has an abundant amount of - now, you need to worry about his hitting power. He's got a nice number of attacks, but wounds MEQs on a 3+. The difference between a 2+ and a 3+ may not seem like much when reading it, but on the table it is an amazing advantage.
    Oh, I know what you're getting at, but what's the point if he never actually reaches troops to kill?
    W/D/L Eleventy trillion billion/NONE/ NONE - I am STILL rulezor!
    WINDMILLS DO NOT WORK THAT WAY!

  10. #9
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    why of course yak i will "just defend every point everyone makes," unless of course, through disorganized debate and some strange modicum of sense on the chaos forum, i am persuaded otherwise!(alert, run on scentance needs food badly)

    i realy dig the heavy bolter option on infiltrating squads. that could certainly work well. however in the context of my list i would be hard pressed to lose even that much mobility. i see the heavy bolters preforming admirably against even meqs, and shining against potential scary list (swarms/numbers). plasma guns do serve me well as antitank however, and i may lose some overall anti tank power by taking the H.B.s... very interesting idea we shall see how the rest of the list fairs under your scrutiny before opting to change their current armament. i disagree with the majority of the players who use infiltraters with melta guns as a means of anti tank, while they are freaking melta guns, they are used by infantry and slow. meaning, most of there hard targets can evade them given half the chance. meltas are by no means bad but i include them in my utility belt infiltrater squads with power fists and a minimum of 8 marines.

    the lascannon squads are there for that 1 shot. its a big investment in one shot per turn that can do anything, and only one thing well. the role of my two lascannon teams is to help create fire lanes, which can be used to open up side armor shots for plasma fire and create interesting target priority for heavy armored opponents. also having something to drop on the board before infiltrate tends to help hedge my bets against enemy infiltrating squads. ive heard the anti lascannon team rhetoric before. the melta gun suggestion is confusing at best here. i see no greater list synergy achieved by including a squad that can fire such a short distance. out of context i totaly aggre but, consider that the melta gunner are not going to force my opponents hand like the lascannon teams. and here is why; 2 seperate squads firing 1, essentialy, board length shot a turn each are capable of creating holes in an opponents deployment ready to be exploited with infiltraters, str "1@" stops tanks from firing, they can kill ICs in the open, draw fire, play nicely when i have to deploy on my side of the board due to swarm/hoard. blah blah. i realy dont like em though. the list begs for em as far as i can see. i would like to use the points in a more effecient way though, and we can all be iron warriors. really i want something else here, please some one find me a better way of spending the points.
    it comes down to a lack of hard anti tank/ranged fire support.

    i totaly dig ya on the bike hate. they are always going to have a hard time earning their points back. unless my opponent takes skimmers, dreadnaught, terminators, marked chaos units, daemon princes, avatars, expensive models, gives me juicy side armor oppurtunities, well basicaly anything that needs to die fast and cant take plasma shots right where they normaly would have been out of reach. they are there to draw fire, and to hit squishy targets. the 5 bike suggestion adds much needed duarbility, but at the expense i dont see the usefullness. now here is the place i would consider putting melta guns. a 5 bike squad with 2 meltas could certainly be more than irritating, but thats a heck of a lot of vps as opposed to their current load. so again i need some good suggestions to pick up the peices.

    im really confused here yak. you tell me im sorely lacking in anti tank and suggest i get rid of my lascannons for melta squads which typicaly dont get in range till turn 2, 3 against an opponent with 80 or more IQ. a pred could do ok here, but with the addition of a predator i gain 1 lascannon shot, albeit twinklinked, only 1. i dont see the sense in that.

    i play a very very mean armored company list frequently with 5+ av 14 tanks in it, my plasma fire is feared by that armored companies comander as well if not more than melta guns. i also play another armored company that is absolute trash. i have lost once in about 15 games against the good armored company player, he smashes face, aside from me. the other is just no armored company vet yet....

    so yak, have you no faith in plasma fire as anti tank? eldar skimmers eat it, and excorsists dont like it either. dreadnaugts get blowed up good by it too. so does my plasma not count towards anti tank or what?

    i totaly want to change stuff around. i swear! i cant reason out why to. give me a hardcore theory lashing, then ill come around to the cookie cutter... err dark side.

    thanks very interesting advice, and i am certainly considering movin stuff around.

    i like resillience too.... infact the prince is built on that principle alone. against a blazing firing line of assault cannons and lascannons ill take the extra wound.

    one last thing. obviously the defilers and bikes practicaly leak vps, but doesnt that create a sorta exploitable gap for the prince and plasmateers?

  11. #10
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    A few suggestions for you:

    1) Trade out the Prince's Essence for Resilience. Once in combat, he'll be taking roughly 15-16% fewer wounds in the first place, which is far more helpful for his survival then just 1 extra wound. FNP will provide more then enough survivability on the way into CC all on it's own, let alone with the Glaive's Invuln save. Oh, and for heaven's sake give the poor guy some Frag grenades! Oh, and consider Spikey Bits.

    2) You can probably shave a few points off by just cutting the lascannon squads down to 5-man units. Could even consider dropping Tank hunters as well. A lascannon is generally well off on it's own, and with only 1 in the squad it's not overly likely to be worth the expense.

    3) Bikes. Those units are all extremely fragile. But you know that. I would heavily suggest changing at least 1, and possibly 2 of those units to use Meltas instead of Plasma. With a bike's speed you don't need the extra range of plasma much, and meltas don't kill your own very pricey models.

    4) Heavy Support - I'd change 1 defiler to either a pred or some Havocs, and then give the other two defilers Indirect Fire. I preffer havocs myself. Not as mobile, but vastly harder to kill then a Pred, and more versatile on thier fire (Ever try 2 Autocannons and 2 Missle launchers with tank hunters? Good against MEQ, armor, and horde). They'd go well with the 2 Lascannon squads. Could even just replace one of those squads in your army.

    5) The defilers don't provide much of a gap for the prince. He's a wreakin' machine, and people know it. A statured prince just oozes whoop-arse. He'll be target priority 1, but he'll only be taking fire for a turn or two at most. Next up would be the defilers, who get popped with horrifying ease given thier flimsy armor (hence my suggestion of Indirect), and the bikes are so utterly fragile that just about anything can kill them as opportunity permits. A single squad of guardsmen can wipe a squad out with either flashlights or in assault, and in a single round with just a tiny bit of luck. So they're probably not the highest priority. Just targets of opportunity.

    In order to give the Prince a gap to charge in, you'd really need something to keep the other army from seeing him. Like a Rhino to block LOS as he moves up the board. Or some other units that are justifyably scary enough to match the Prince. 5-6 man bike squads could maybe do the trick. Still not as scary, but a lot juicier on the VP scale.
    Last edited by Xardian; January 12th, 2007 at 16:48.

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