1500pt Alpha Legion City Fight List - need comments! - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
    Member Emeraldguardx's Avatar
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    1500pt Alpha Legion City Fight List - need comments!

    Ok, this is my first attempt at a chaos list. I usually play eldar but i also have a space wolves army. Being an eldar player ive gotten use to having one unit go down and the rest of the army going in a domino effect, so im weary as to how viable this list is, but then again i know marines are pretty sturdy. Tell me what you think of this list and what i could probably do to make it better. thanks!

    HQ:

    Deamon Prince - deamonic armour, aura, flight, mutation, Stature, Strength, Visage, Move through cover, skilled rider, frags, furious charge, 2 CCW

    Troops:

    10x Chaos Cultists, mark of undivided, chaos icon, scouts, infiltrate, move through cover

    7x bloodletters

    10x marines w/ bolt pistols, CCWs, melta gun, frag grenades, furious charge, infiltrate, mark of undivided, aspiring champion w/ powerfist, bolt pistol

    10x marines w/ bolt pistols, CCWs, melta gun, frag grenades, furious charge, infiltrate, mark of undivided, aspiring champion w/ powerfist, bolt pistol

    Fast Attack:

    6x Raptors w/ bolt pistols, CCW, 2 plasma pistols, frags, kraks, hit and run, furious charge, infiltrate, deamonic flight, deamonic visage, w/ aspiring champion w/ powerfist, bolt pistol

    Heavies:

    5x Havocs w/ mark of undivided, infiltrate, tank hunter, bolter, 4x heavy bolter

    5x Havocs w/ mark of undivided, infiltrate, tank hunter, bolter, lascannon, 3x autocannon

    Last edited by Emeraldguardx; February 28th, 2007 at 15:19.
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  3. #2
    The other Kind of Fluff Rabbit's Avatar
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    946 (x8)

    Welcome to the Dark Side ("Luke")

    On to the list:

    How much terrain do you expect to see on the table?

    Prince: Statured princes excel in city fights, because of the sheer number of hiding places. For this reason, you can get awy without dameonic armor. It's an expensive upgrade that, for the most part, isn't as 'protective' as it appears upon first glance. Here's why: Against low power weapons, i.e.- bolters and the likes, your high toughness coupled with your 3+ save is ample. Against lascannons and railguns, daemonic armor is wasted, due to the low AP. Some people like the armor for saving against missile launcher; but in my experience, you can endure a few missiles to the forehead, especially considering that you have a great movement ability and plenty of terrain to block L.O.S.

    You can also do without skiller rider. Since your prince flies, he won't have to worry about crossing over terrain.

    Furious Charge: While this is a very good vet skill, at the 1500 point mark, IMHO, you don't have the points to justify this upgrade. Most of the time, the princes high init and high strength is sufficient to manage anything you need in c.c.. I generally reserve furious charge for non-statred prince or against opponents with high inits, such as dark eldar and nids.


    Cultists: Add a power fist and give the squad some punching power. Also, just be mindful that if this squad falls prior to summoning the letters, then you're actually out 2 units (the cultist and the letters). It's very possible for your opponent to kill all the cultists before you can summon the letters, especially if your opponent goes first. Just something to keep in mind.


    Raptors: Plasma weaponry is very dangerous on expensive units and best reserved for basic troops. You don't want to lose a 30+ point model to a 'gets hot' roll. Take melta guns instead.

    Give the A.C. a basic power weapon & daemonic strength. You want to take advantage of furious charge. Plus, with only 6 models in the unit, you don't want to be waiting for your a.c. to hit, in hopes that he's not taken out prior to his attack.

    Havocs: Min/max squads are not a good idea for havocs. Currently, you only have 1 wound before you start losing heavy weapons. Increase their numbers to 7.

    The heavy bolters are fine.

    The lascannon is too expensive to take in a havoc squad, what, at 35 points. Swith it to an autocannon, and then use the saved points to increase the squad count.

    You might also consider taking a couple of obliterators, if you can find the points.

    Good luck!

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    thanks, that helps, especially the havocs and raptors part, that makes alot of sense. and im from Wichita Falls TX
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  5. #4
    KITTENS GIVE MORBO GAS! theyak's Avatar
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    385 (x8)

    Hello Emeraldguardx, welcome to LO! I'll take a crack at your list.
    Quote Originally Posted by Emeraldguardx View Post
    Ok, this is my first attempt at a chaos list. I usually play eldar but i also have a space wolves army. Being an eldar player ive gotten use to having one unit go down and the rest of the army going in a domino effect, so im weary as to how viable this list is, but then again i know marines are pretty sturdy. Tell me what you think of this list and what i could probably do to make it better. thanks!
    That can happen to any army. It depends on your playstyle, and your oponent's but in essence, the eldar are the most vulnerable to it as "an army of specialists"
    Quote Originally Posted by Emeraldguardx View Post

    HQ:

    Deamon Prince - deamonic armour, aura, flight, mutation, Stature, Strength, Visage, Move through cover, skilled rider, frags, furious charge, 2 CCW
    Alpha legion, in general gets its advantage from very cheap infiltration, and in some cases(like cultists)it's free. Now, taking stature on a DP closes off infiltrate for him, and that makes me sad. For the points you're spending on him, an infiltrating lord I think will work far better with the army than this guy.

    Move through cover/skilled riders is a free ability for ALL monsterous and independent characters, so you don't need it(unless you just listed it to be thorough, then sorry.. disregard)

    One of my favorite build for DPs is: Lord, darkblade, d.aura, d.strength,d.resiliance furious charge, frags, bolt pistol. this build puts him at about 162 pts or so, he gets str8 on the charge with an initiative of 6. He's useful for sniping out marine HQs, and instakilling anything t4 or lower, its a beautiful thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Emeraldguardx View Post

    Troops:

    10x Chaos Cultists, mark of undivided, chaos icon, scouts, infiltrate, move through cover
    Cultists are nice, but individually fragile, to make them work you really need to have them at least 15 strong, and I reccomend the "assasins" kit for them unless you have specific plans for them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Emeraldguardx View Post

    7x bloodletters
    Okeydokey, yum!
    Quote Originally Posted by Emeraldguardx View Post

    10x marines w/ bolt pistols, CCWs, melta gun, frag grenades, furious charge, infiltrate, mark of undivided, aspiring champion w/ powerfist, bolt pistol
    Good. Consider getting them a pair of meltguns? even at the expense of one marine to bring them down to 9.
    Quote Originally Posted by Emeraldguardx View Post

    10x marines w/ bolt pistols, CCWs, melta gun, frag grenades, furious charge, infiltrate, mark of undivided, aspiring champion w/ powerfist, bolt pistol
    Same as above.
    Quote Originally Posted by Emeraldguardx View Post

    Fast Attack:

    6x Raptors w/ bolt pistols, CCW, 2 plasma pistols, frags, kraks, hit and run, furious charge, infiltrate, deamonic flight, deamonic visage, w/ aspiring champion w/ powerfist, bolt pistol
    Rabbit already mentioned the caution about plasma on expensive units, so I'll just second his warning. Otherwise, I think these guys should be left at home until 1850, they're just too expensive. I think Obliterators are a better choice.
    Quote Originally Posted by Emeraldguardx View Post

    Heavies:

    5x Havocs w/ mark of undivided, infiltrate, tank hunter, bolter, 4x heavy bolter
    Heavy bolters are cheap enough to make them a min-maxed squad but I still don't really like it, I'd like to see at least 2 or even 3 "extra" guys in there to soak up some firepower for your heavy weapon toters.
    Quote Originally Posted by Emeraldguardx View Post

    5x Havocs w/ mark of undivided, infiltrate, tank hunter, bolter, lascannon, 3x autocannon
    In general , I reccomend an equal number of "extras" per heavy weapon. so 4 heavy weapons, 4 extras = 8 havocs. This gives them incredible staying power. With that kitout, I suggest 4x Missile launchers instead, its cheaper, more shots and it has the same strength against tanks as lascannons.

    Hope this helps.
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    with the DP, does he become a monsterous creature with deamonic stature or when he takes enough gifts to become a DP? i do like the idea of the dark blade, im really trying to model my DP witht the Belakor the Dark Master mini. mainly because he looks bad arse. so i need him to atleast have flight. the dark blade does sound good.

    the cultists primary role is to summon the blood letters, thats all. after that they are a objective claimer, for 70 points, im not too terribly worried about loosing them.

    the marines, i dunno, im pretty comfortable the way they are, but ill give it a try

    raptors are TBD.

    i like theyaks idea about the havocs. that'll be a work in progress, thanks!
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  7. #6
    KITTENS GIVE MORBO GAS! theyak's Avatar
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    385 (x8)

    Quote Originally Posted by Emeraldguardx View Post
    with the DP, does he become a monsterous creature with deamonic stature or when he takes enough gifts to become a DP? i do like the idea of the dark blade, im really trying to model my DP witht the Belakor the Dark Master mini. mainly because he looks bad arse. so i need him to atleast have flight. the dark blade does sound good.
    Yes, with daemonic stature, he becomes a Daemon prince OR, when you get 51 or more points of gifts.

    Cool, I used Belakor spliced with archaon to make my daemon prince with darkblade and daemonic speed(btw, I think I forgot to encourage you to take daemonic speed with him.. its great)
    Quote Originally Posted by Emeraldguardx View Post

    the cultists primary role is to summon the blood letters, thats all. after that they are a objective claimer, for 70 points, im not too terribly worried about loosing them.
    Sure, but what happens when they die before they can summon? 10 cultists is pretty easy to dispatch when concentrated on, and since they're the ONLY way for the bloodletters to get in, that'd be like a two-fer-one for your oponent, you bet he'll do that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Emeraldguardx View Post
    the marines, i dunno, im pretty comfortable the way they are, but ill give it a try
    Not a big adjustment, it was just a suggestion, they looked pretty good as is.
    Quote Originally Posted by Emeraldguardx View Post
    raptors are TBD.

    i like theyaks idea about the havocs. that'll be a work in progress, thanks!
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    946 (x8)

    But a lord or prince only becomes a monstrous creature with daemonic stature.
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    hmmm, i can take deamonic speed and still use Belakor..... that could work, they dont have to fly even though the model has wings..... my dodo head parrot cant evebn fly, lol. i kind of like the speed better then the flight, alot faster.. I want to take his blade and green stuff it into maybe a spear or scythe of some sort, the blade looks cool as is, but its still very generic.

    ok, true about the cultists, but on the other hand, hes gonna have to focus almost everything on them first turn, and thats all i need to get the rest of my infiltrating army and ram it down his throat, and if i can manage to keep my bearer alive for one turn, then hes really screwed. but a few more couldnt hurt, i just want to keep the point cost of them down for what they are suppose to do.
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    KITTENS GIVE MORBO GAS! theyak's Avatar
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    385 (x8)

    Quote Originally Posted by Emeraldguardx View Post
    hmmm, i can take deamonic speed and still use Belakor..... that could work, they dont have to fly even though the model has wings..... my dodo head parrot cant evebn fly, lol. i kind of like the speed better then the flight, alot faster.. I want to take his blade and green stuff it into maybe a spear or scythe of some sort, the blade looks cool as is, but its still very generic.

    ok, true about the cultists, but on the other hand, hes gonna have to focus almost everything on them first turn, and thats all i need to get the rest of my infiltrating army and ram it down his throat, and if i can manage to keep my bearer alive for one turn, then hes really screwed. but a few more couldnt hurt, i just want to keep the point cost of them down for what they are suppose to do.
    True, about the cultists, but giving them some utility outside of summoning platforms is a very good thing. Invest 60 points and you get 15 cultists, a champion with a power weapon, I give him d.strength as well. And what you've got now, is a very resiliant, hard hitting cheap unit that SUMMONS daemons. Bloodletters are good, but they aren't a one man army, and your oponent will know this. Instability is your enemy, if you can always outnumber your oponent, you will stave off those evil modifiers that make daemons dissapear really quickly when they lose a combat. Consider, summoning those daemons in, charging with them and then charging that same unit with your cultists. This acheives a few things. 1) it ties them in combat so they can't get shot(in some situations that's very good) 2) it gives a huge weight of numbers advantage to your daemons AND it increases your chances to break the enemy and run them down, 3 those two units need eachother to support one another to survive and do well. bloodletters are really tough, but when they hit the board, if they go unsupported, they will dissapear frighteningly fast(because everyone knows that red, horned evil things are BAAAAAD)
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    alright, you've convienced me, ill take some extra culitsts, them plus the bloodletters on a charge are gonna make anything turn tail and run now, one last question and ill stop, i know i can buy the classic models from GW, is there a cheaper way of modeling these guys with some kind of fantasy unit?
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