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  1. #1
    Aesthete honorableSimon's Avatar
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    69 (x2)

    1000 pt. Friendly for Tuesday (cuts needed)

    I just drafted up a list for my Tuesday game (I'm going to be away for the weekend so I'll read all your comments when I get back), and as you will probably notice by the bottom there are a few issues with this list, namely that it is about 51 points over, and I still want to make more additions (oops). Here is the list as stands:

    Headquaters:
    [146] Lieutenant Numero Uno
    MoCU
    Infiltrate
    Terminator Armour [see edit below]
    Dark Blade
    Dæmonic Strength
    Dæmonic Speed
    random CCW

    This guy is essentially how I want him, I would like to drop terminator armour for dæmonic aura as I really will probably only need the invulnerable save, but he's over his dæmonic limit, and I'm nearly certain I don't want to drop any of the other dæmonic stuff, so that's probably a no-go. I could always drop terminator armour off him entirely, but I feel like that would make him super vulnerable, especially in a world where I don't really have any good terrain to hide behind. Comments here please, and let me know what you think I should do with the termie armour.

    [160] Lieutenant Numero Dos
    MoCU
    Infiltrate
    Terminator Armour [see edit below]
    Dual Lightning Claws
    Spiky Bits
    Dæmonic Mutation
    Dæmonic Speed
    Dæmonic Strength

    This guy is just a disaster waiting to happen. There are tons of things I could drop from him, but I kind of like the way he is, built to have far far too many attacks, and hopefully have most of them hit & wound. I don't think I've ever fielded a lieutenant like this before, so let me know if I screwed soemthing up, other than the fact that he's too expensive.

    Troops:
    [176] Frontline Alpha Legionaires (eight of them)
    MoCU
    Infiltrate
    2 Meltaguns
    AC w/ Power Fist

    [176] Frontline Alpha Legionaires (eight of them)
    MoCU
    Infiltrate
    2 Meltaguns
    AC w/ Power Fist

    Right now I'm thinking the strat will be the lieutenants kind of hiding out inside these squad in case I don't go first, and then they just advance forward behind the lieutenants, hopefully getting some sort of second turn charge. Pretty standard Assault Squads, I hope.

    [161] "Support" Alpha Legionaires (eight of them)
    MoCU
    Infiltrate
    2 Plasma Guns
    AC w/ nothing

    Yeah, they infiltrate, and then they shoot. Pretty simple. I was thinking of maybe cutting this squad down to 6 people, as they're really just a lesser havoc squad with fewer gun slots, but as you can see I thought 8 would eb optimal.

    Heavy Support:
    [232] Infiltrating Tank Hunting Autocannon Havocs (eight of them)
    You know the setup [see edit below]

    For support against the inevitable skimmers he loves to take, and becuse they' generally fantastic. I was also thinking about cutting this squad down to 6 although that's pretty unlikely to happen. Also, I wasn't sure if I should infiltrate them or not. It's not a lot of points, but if I just don't need to infiltrate them I don't see the point in taking them.


    The Final Cut: 1051 points
    Headquarters: 29%
    Troops: 49%
    Heavy Support: 22%

    Extraneous Notes:
    I would like to give some of these squads scary faces, named the two assault-y squads, but clearly I just don't have the points. I kind of feel like I should drop the terminator armour off both of the Lieutenants to break even and just have some fantasticly offensive leiutenants hidden in squads (this seems right now liek the most liekly way I will cut it down to 1k points, or 1k1 technically).

    I also feel liek this army is lacking in the shooty department, which is strange because usually I play World Eaters, which is always lacking in the shooty department. I'm thinking maybe there should only be one assault-y squad and two plasma gun squads, but then I seem to be lacking in the assault department.

    Also, some of you might be about to say "You silly! Drop the expensive Lieutenant for another squad!" and this was initially my intention, except it was also the reason I initially didn't want to play an Alpha Legion list, because I though it would jsut be boring. So, I decided that because this will be very friendly and in the end I don't really care who wins or loses, It would paly with some fun lieutenants. So, sorry to you smart people, I'm sticking with two lieutenants.

    After I thought about it... (EDIT)
    I think I'm going to drop the terminator armours (although I'd still like to cut down the expensive lieutenant some more) and sacrifice the havocs' infiltration for getting scary face on the Marine squads and giving the two lords frag grenades (although I doubt they'll be useful) After you all submit some comments I'll post a new list, hopefully with more changes than just this.

    Last edited by honorableSimon; March 2nd, 2007 at 18:01. Reason: I thought about some stuff
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  3. #2
    The other Kind of Fluff Rabbit's Avatar
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    946 (x8)

    Right off the bat, your army is illegal. You can't take movement modifiers with the terminator armor. On to the build:

    H.Q's (both): At the 1000 point mark, you simply cannot get everything you want (as you undoubtedly know). Efficiency is the key. Drop terminator armor and daemonic strength. Why? For one termi armor is the most limiting of your upgrades, and as it stands, your h.q's have the much coveted first turn charge, which you'll want to preserve. As far as d. strength goes, when tallied with the Dark Blade, it's almost always a conditional benefit that only serves you against marine independent characters and monstrous creatures. Again, at the 1000 point mark, you want all of your upgrades to be used 100% of the time, or darn near to it.

    Spiky bits is a solid choice for both h.q's, while daemonic mutation is not. It's cost makes it questionable, especially at the 1000 point mark (you'll hear me refer to your army size frequently as the reason for dropping or taking upgrades, in case you haven't noticed).



    Troops: Six man squads are perfect for ranged support units, but not so good for c.c. tricks. For this reason, your 6 man squads with power fists should either be increased to 8, or you should drop the a.c. along with the power fist.

    Also, you shouldn't have A.C's in your last squad. They don't serve any purpose.

    Havocs: Eight is generally regarded as a good number. If you're having trouble coming up with points for the rest of your army, you *can* reduce them to 7. At the 1000 point mark (there it is again) you can usually get away with only 7 in the havocs.
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  4. #3
    Now with STFU flames! Caluin's Avatar
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    708 (x8)

    Your basic units look solid, and I wouldn't change anything beyond what Rabbit has already suggested. You have a pretty good balance, so that should do you well enough.

    To free up the requisite points, you could drop the Havocs to 7 men, and knock out the Champion + 2 troopers in the Plasma squad. That should be plenty, and any extra points could go to outfitting your two Champions with stuff like Mutation, since they'll be doing much of the grunt work.

    Without cutting one of the HQs, there's really not much lee-way to do anything else. I'd have liked to seen some Oblits in there, but oh well.


  5. #4
    Aesthete honorableSimon's Avatar
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    Updated List & Questions at the Bottom

    Hey all, I'm back, so here's the new list. I can't believe I made my lieutenants illegal, it was pretty late at night and it seemed like such a good idea! Fast terminators. I was like "Man, I'm a genious!" Yeah. So much for that. Other than that the list hasn't really changed too much, as Caluin and the Rabbit both pointed out that it's kind of constrained, but I'd still like to know what you think of it, make sure I didn't screw it up even more.

    To summarize: I cut down the lieutenants and beefed up the ACs:

    Headquarters:
    [116] Lieutenant Sir Re-Roll:
    MoCU
    Lightning Claws
    Dæmonic Speed
    Dæmonic Aura
    Spiky Bits
    Infiltrate
    Frags

    [122] Lieutenant Sir Strong and a Half:
    MoCU
    Dark Blade
    CCW
    Dæmonic Speed
    Dæmonic Aura
    Spiky Bits
    Infiltrate
    Frags

    Troops:
    [198] Assault Squad (eight peeps)
    MoCU
    AC w/ scary face & mutation & p. fist & spiky bits
    Meltaguns
    Infiltrate

    [198] Assault Squad (eight peeps)
    MoCU
    AC w/ scary face & mutation & p. fist & spiky bits
    Meltaguns
    Infiltrate

    [133] Tactical Squad (eight peeps)
    MoCU
    Plasma Guns
    Infiltrate

    Heavy Support:
    [232] Infiltrating, Tank Hunting, Autocannon Havocs
    You know the drill

    Total Points: 999

    My worry now is that the lieutenants are too small and the ACs are too big. Let me knwo what you think,a nd thanks for the comments (especially the heads up on the illegal thing... heh heh)

    *EDIT*
    Quote Originally Posted by Caluin View Post
    I'd have liked to seen some Oblits in there, but oh well.
    Me too, Caluin, me too, so here's the deal. I can easily fit in one Obliterator with room for a Teleport Homer somewhere by dropping the plasma gun squad to 6 men and cutting mutation and spiky bits off the ACs, and I can fit in two Oblits by dropping the above plus Dæmonic Aura off the Lieutenants (they'll either be hidden in squads or in close combat) and cutting the Havocs down to 7 (I wouldn't normally do this but I feel like droppnig a bolter for part of an obliterator is worth it) and one of the two following options:

    A. cut spiky bits off the lieutenants, making them literally bare minimum.
    B. cut one p. fist and both scary faces off the ACs, making them much less useful (but then again I am facing T'au, and perhaps I could strategically use the one power fist...)

    *EDIT AGAIN*
    Yeah, so I just did the math out and apparently if I drop all of that except the power fist I'm still @ 1006 points, I don't know what I missed. Please let me know what you think about dropping a power fist, and if I should I would probably leave spiky bits on one of the lieutenants - which?
    *END EDIT AGAIN*

    Right now I am leaning heavily toward either using one Oblit (not sure if it's worth it) or cutting spiky bits nad going for two small lieutenants.

    In the end all of this forces me to make a very skeletal army which I've kind of been a fan of in the past, but then again I was a lot worse at making army lists before I started looking at lists on this forum.

    Also, if you think I have my cuts here prioritized incorrectly please let me know (i.e. I should drop the Havocs to 7 men before I cut mutation off the ACs or something). I'm now very excited about playing Oblits in this army, I feel like I could freak out my friend heh heh he kind of hates Oblits and Raptors... my Raptors have a reputation for not ever rolling die for anything except saves.

    Anyway, thanks again for the comments.
    *END EDIT*
    Last edited by honorableSimon; March 5th, 2007 at 05:47. Reason: I am smart & the Caluin stuff
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  6. #5
    Aesthete honorableSimon's Avatar
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    69 (x2)

    Update

    I hate to double post and this is partially a more updated list and partially a bump because it's... well here's it's already Tuesday, but I will be around for a short while longer, so any final comments please let me know.

    Headquarters:
    [121] Lieutenant Reroll
    MoCU, twin lightning claws, dæmonic speed & resilience, spiky bits, infiltrate, frags

    [116] Lieutenant Strongbad
    MoCU, darkblade, dæmonic speed & resilience, spiky bits, infiltrate, frags

    Elites:
    [**] Obliterator (one)

    Troops:
    [193] Assault Squad Alpha (eight)
    MoCU, meltaguns, infiltrate
    AC w/ power fist, dæmonic mutation, scary face, & teleport homer

    [188] Assault Squad Bravo (eight)
    MoCU, meltaguns, infiltrate
    AC w/ power fist, dæmonic mutation, & scary face

    [111] Support Squad Charlie (eight)
    MoCU, plasma guns, infiltrate

    Heavy Support:
    [199] Support Squad Delta (seven)
    MoCU, autocannons, tank hunters, infiltrate

    The Final Cut: 999 points


    I think the Havocs really need the most work, I can't decide to cut the plasma to beef them up a bit, or to cut an autocannon for benefits elsewhere, and part of me kind of wants to make this two very small dual-autocannons squads @ five marines each, but I don't think that's going to happen. Obviously feel free to tear apart any of my list, in the end it will help me even if I decide to play what I want (it's a friendly game) so please don't hesitate.
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  7. #6
    The other Kind of Fluff Rabbit's Avatar
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    946 (x8)

    Your havocs seem fine.

    The one area that could use a little cushion would be your lightning claws lieut. He needs daemonic strength. This upgrade should yield an additional 1-2 kills per round. You can harvest the required points by taking daemonic mutation away from one of your c.c. units. Statistically, this change will produce more kills.

    Cut the plasma support squad down to 6, and give them infiltrate. They need to be right beside your c.c. units, so that they can move up and rapid fire if needed or count-fire against those unpredictable deep striking units. Six is sufficient for this kind of unit.

    Finally, how did you come up with 199 points for your havocs?
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