Mantis Corsairs (Word Bearers) 2,250pts - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
    Tactical Avante-Gard <E!_Mance>'s Avatar
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    Mantis Corsairs (Word Bearers) 2,250pts

    There is a new & ambitious player has arrived and is planning to make a Splinter group of Mantis Warriors that went rogue after the Badab war, led by a heavily mutated Chaplain.

    He plans to have Raptors spearheading a hit-&-run strike force. And like all Yeppoonite players, he has made a Special Character to lead them;
    This is the Special Character.
    Black Mantis
    Pts230, WS6, BS0, S7(, T5, I5(6), W3, A5(6), Ld10, Sv2+/4+
    Gifts/Wargear: Daemonic: Armour, Flight, Mutation, Strength, Stature, Visage.
    Crozier Malefactor, Master-crafted Great weapon, Spiky bits.
    Special Skills:
    Demagogue
    Furious Assault
    Hit & Run
    Sustained flight: Black Mantis prefers to remain in the air when not fighting in a swirling Melée, so will remain aloft as long as possible. When not in Close Combat or falling back, Black Mantis may move an extra 6" in the Assault phase regardless of him charging into Close Combat or not.
    Crozier Malefactor: Black Mantis was once a Loyal Chaplain of the Imperial creed, and still bears the Crozius Arcanum & Rosarius he once possessed. The Combined effects of confer +1 attack & a 4+ Invulnerable save. They also count as a Personal Icon for the purposes of Daemon summoning.

    Disclaimer: THis Special Character is on par with the rest of out own SCs, and is allowed by all concerned. No need to say he's broken or anything.

    HQ
    Black Mantis
    230pts

    Elites
    Great Mantis Consort
    3 Obliterators
    210pts

    Troops
    Mantis Claw A
    AC with Powerfist, Visage, & Bolt Pistol
    4 Chaos Marines with Bolt pistols & CCWs
    Icon, MoCU.
    Rhino with Smoke Launcher
    158pts

    Mantis Claw B
    AC with Powerfist , Visage, & Bolt Pistol
    4 Chaos Marines with Bolt pistols & CCWs
    Icon, MoCU.
    Rhino with Smoke Launcher
    158pts

    Bloodletter Pack
    8 letters
    208pts


    Fast Attack
    Screamer Pack
    9 Screamers
    135pts

    Screamer Pack
    9 Screamers
    135pts

    Flying Mantes
    Raptor Squad
    AC with 2 Lightning Claws, Strength, & Mutation
    2 Raptors with Flamers
    Raptor with Plasma pistol & CCW
    Raptor with Icon, Bolt pistol, & CCW
    Furious Assault, Hit & Run, MoCU. 235pts

    Heavy Support
    Tranquility Snipers
    Havoc Squad
    AC with Talons, Mutation, & Strength
    3 Havocs with Autocannons
    1 Havoc with Missile Launcher
    5 Havocs with Bolt pistols & CCWs
    Tank Hunters or Infiltrate, Night vision. 293pts

    Havoc Squad
    AC with Talons, Mutation, & Strength
    3 Havocs with Autocannons
    1 Havoc with Missile Launcher
    5 Havocs with Bolt pistols & CCWs
    Tank Hunters or Infiltrate, Night vision. 293pts

    The Husk
    Predator with Twin-linked Lascannon, Lascannon Sponsons, & Havoc Launcher
    Parasitic Possession, Extra Armour.
    195pts

    How will it Fare against: World Eaters, D'eath Guard or Traited Loyalist, Necrons or Emperor's Children, & Tau or Witch Hunters?

    Post your army lists in the ARMY LIST section! Not that hard!
    48W/7D/11L

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  3. #2
    Member sephirth's Avatar
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    HQ
    Black Mantis
    230pts

    Elites
    Great Mantis Consort
    3 Obliterators
    210pts
    If you're ok with the special char, then its no big deal. I wouldnt equip him with a great weapon though, just a normal ccw.

    Obliterators are always nice.

    Troops
    Mantis Claw A
    AC with Powerfist, Visage, & Bolt Pistol
    4 Chaos Marines with Bolt pistols & CCWs
    Icon, MoCU.
    Rhino with Smoke Launcher
    158pts
    These squads are too small to be assault squads. I would bump them up to at least 8 or they will be shot down/killed before the champ can get his attacks in combat. Dropping the rhino and adding infiltrate might help out with demon summoning, because they will be unable to summon from inside. If you keep the rhino, and exra armor. A non moving rhino is not doing its job.

    Bloodletter Pack
    8 letters
    208pts
    Very nice. Good with the fluffy number too.

    Fast Attack
    Screamer Pack
    9 Screamers
    135pts

    Screamer Pack
    9 Screamers
    135pts
    It has been my experience that furies work better than screamers, but ymmv.

    Flying Mantes
    Raptor Squad
    AC with 2 Lightning Claws, Strength, & Mutation
    2 Raptors with Flamers
    Raptor with Plasma pistol & CCW
    Raptor with Icon, Bolt pistol, & CCW
    Furious Assault, Hit & Run, MoCU. 235pts
    Flamers are not all they are cracked up to be. Meltas would do better in this squad to soften up any units pre charge. The AC looks just about perfect. Also, try to add another raptor or two, small units like this can be decimated by fire if left out in the open for just one turn.

    Tranquility Snipers
    Havoc Squad
    AC with Talons, Mutation, & Strength
    3 Havocs with Autocannons
    1 Havoc with Missile Launcher
    5 Havocs with Bolt pistols & CCWs
    Tank Hunters or Infiltrate, Night vision. 293pts
    4 autocannons, infiltrate, tank hunters. A tried and effective combination. Having only 1 ablative wound once again is a bad thing.

    The Husk
    Predator with Twin-linked Lascannon, Lascannon Sponsons, & Havoc Launcher
    Parasitic Possession, Extra Armour.
    195pts
    Demonic possession first, last and only.
    Another squad will almost always benefit you more than a few upgrades to all squads. Remember: Troops before Toys.

  4. #3
    Tactical Avante-Gard <E!_Mance>'s Avatar
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    Okay, now, what's this about the 1 Ablative wound thing for the Havocs? There's 5 in each squad. Unless you're on about taking 5 men in each squad it doesn't make sense.

    Daemonic Possession only = Stunned & Shaken cancelled.
    Parasitic Possession & Extra Armour, Stunned downgraded, all real damage repaired.
    The 2nd one costs 5pts more than the 1st... Why is 5pts less for ignoring the minor so much better than getting back up and doing more after being pummeled?

    See the theme for the really assaulty stuff?
    Black Mantis - Hit & Run & Furious Assault
    Raptors - Hit & Run & Furious Assault
    2 Screamer units - Hit & Run & Furious Assault
    Furies - ... Summons only on Undivided Icons... ?
    The Screamers are to be summoned before the Bloodletters anyway, what with their speed, so a swarm of 23 models backed up by a Monsterous Creature is good when they all do their damage, bug out, then let the next unit tag-team it.

    Now, 8 men Infiltrating = 172pts. While 5 men in a Rhino = 156pts. For the both of them, what you want them to have will make the army cost 32pts more. And taking Meltaguns instead of Flamers on the Raptors and 2 more ablative Raptors (while good) is another 74, making 106... Then saying to give the Havocs both Tank Hunters & Infiltrate (while dangerous) will make the squads cost 323, another 60pts.
    What you're asking to do is costing another 166pts
    Wow... and the balancing thing you suggest to make it fit is remove 5pts to make the only armor in the army so much less than it is... How does the army get this magical 161pts?

    Also, read it and look at the theme it has. Fast-moving Harassing assaulty teams backed up with long range monsters. The Rhinos & their squads were for countering Khornate stuff & shielding the Predator. Bloodletters to be summoned when as close to the enemy as they can. Screamers to be ablative wounds for the wave of assault and Autocannons with assaulty extra members to lay supressive fire for advancing enemies (Khorne majorly).

    The troops were kept small for a reason, and that was to get enough pts to actually have the themed units.

    This is his reasoning. I agree.
    Post your army lists in the ARMY LIST section! Not that hard!
    48W/7D/11L

  5. #4
    Son of LO darkreever's Avatar
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    I'd have to say I would agree as well, mostly due to the lack of actualy help that comes from the suggestions. (No offense or anything sephirth, you did post something to help to begin with but its not 100% help if all you do is suggest point increases with no suggestions on how to implement such things.)

    However true/blunt your post was Mance, it was a bit rude and abrassive all the same.

    Take my love, take my land, take me to where I cannot stand; I don't care I'm still free, you can't take the sky from me.

    "The difference between gods and daemons largely depends upon where one is standing at the time."- Lorgar
    Member of the Fluff Masters Clan

  6. #5
    Member sephirth's Avatar
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    I was/am posting from work, so I can be a bit rushed to finish sometimes. Its the only place i have internet access here though, so what can you do?

    Okay, now, what's this about the 1 Ablative wound thing for the Havocs? There's 5 in each squad. Unless you're on about taking 5 men in each squad it doesn't make sense.
    What I mean here, is that after the squad takes more than 1 wound, it serously starts losing effectiveness. Most units in this configuration have 6-8 marines, allowing 2-4 wounds before you start losing heavy weapons. Havoc squads are prime targets for enemy shooting, for obvious reasons.

    Daemonic Possession only = Stunned & Shaken cancelled.
    Parasitic Possession & Extra Armour, Stunned downgraded, all real damage repaired.
    The 2nd one costs 5pts more than the 1st... Why is 5pts less for ignoring the minor so much better than getting back up and doing more after being pummeled?
    I have difficulty explaining this, so i will let Karmoon do the work for me. From this thread.
    http://www.librarium-online.com/foru...ad.php?t=87024 (Chaos Predator Loadout)

    Quote Originally Posted by Karmoon
    Upgrades
    Daemonic possession is generally regarded as the best. This keeps the predator constantly moving and shooting throughout most glancing hit results. This is excellent for armies which rely on glancing hits to stop a tank from shooting.

    Mutated hull - if you can afford it, get it. But, there's probably better places to spend the points. Note that a lot of eldar weaponry renders this upgrade useless.

    Parasitic possession - Works incredibly well when paired with daemonic possession, but then things start getting very very expensive. Probably not worth it on its own though, it's a lot of points for something which isn't guaranteed.
    With Demonic, if you take a glancing hit you have a 1 in 6 chance of not shooting next turn (destroyed). With parasitic, you have a 4 in 6 chance of not shooting next turn, and a 1 in 6 being destroyed.

    Against a penetrating hit, Demonic gives you a 3 in 6 of not shooting (again, destroyed) Parasitic will give you no chance to shoot, and the same chance of being destroyed.

    See the theme for the really assaulty stuff?
    Black Mantis - Hit & Run & Furious Assault
    Raptors - Hit & Run & Furious Assault
    2 Screamer units - Hit & Run & Furious Assault
    Furies - ... Summons only on Undivided Icons... ?
    The Screamers are to be summoned before the Bloodletters anyway, what with their speed, so a swarm of 23 models backed up by a Monsterous Creature is good when they all do their damage, bug out, then let the next unit tag-team it.
    I see the assaulty theme, but a 5 man assault squad normally = 5 man suicide squad. Also, you can never control your summoning. Who's to say that your bloodletters wont come out on turn 2, and your furies on turn 4. It may work for you, it may not.

    I did see your overall theme, but I am not sure if you can accomplish everything with the point limit you have. You have fluffy units you want to keep, so telling you to remove them isn't a good thing to do.

    Personally, I would remove either one of the havoc squads, or the obliterators. Using freed points, i would bulk up the rest of the squads to 6-8 marines each, along with most of the suggestions above. Though, I might keep the screamers around to fit the rest of the theme, now that you've explained it.
    Another squad will almost always benefit you more than a few upgrades to all squads. Remember: Troops before Toys.

  7. #6
    Tactical Avante-Gard <E!_Mance>'s Avatar
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    The previous rashness was not my own for once.
    It was the owner of the list. Everything has been taken for a reason.
    BUT I have been able to coerce him into making some changes, IE: No ACs means there can be 1 more raptor. 2 more if there is 6pts that can be taken. I might be able to take away the Smoke Launcehrs, I suppose. But he may not like it that way.
    But with the Raptors being 7-strong, there's a boost of danger indeed.

    And there IS more than 1 ablative wound on the Havocs. Read the entries, it says:
    AC with stuff
    4 with Upgrade guns
    5 normals
    This equals 10, not 6 (or 5).

    Just clearing that one up.
    Post your army lists in the ARMY LIST section! Not that hard!
    48W/7D/11L

  8. #7
    Member sephirth's Avatar
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    No problem at all, just me not paying attention. Must be all these 72 hour work weeks adding up.
    Another squad will almost always benefit you more than a few upgrades to all squads. Remember: Troops before Toys.

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