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  1. #1
    Member null_sheen's Avatar
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    Alpha Legion 1500pt Tourney Lists

    Anyhow its a concept at the moment just wondered if it was feasible and what people thought?

    I have made two lists, one with terminators and one with bikes.

    Alpha Legion: 1500pts

    List 1:

    HQ: 155pts
    Lord:
    Chaos Bike, Darkblade, Melta Gun, Daemonic Essence, Demonic Aura.

    Troops: 650pts
    18 Cultists, MOCU, Assassins (Infiltrate and Furious Charge), Pistol, CCW, Champion with Power Weapon
    18 Cultists, MOCU, Assassins (Infiltrate and Furious Charge), Pistol, CCW, Champion with Power Weapon
    8 CSM, MOCU, Infiltrate, Pistol, CCW, 1 Melta Gun, 1 Flamer, Frag, Asp Champion with Fist
    8 CSM, MOCU, Infiltrate, Pistol, CCW, 1 Melta Gun, 1 Flamer, Frag, Asp Champion with Fist

    Fast Attack: 484pts
    5 Bikes, MOCU, 2 Melta Guns
    7 Raptors, MOCU, Furious Charge, Infiltrate, 2 Melta Guns, Asp Champion Lightning Claws

    Heavy Support: 208pts
    8 Havoks, Infiltrate, MOCU, 2 Missile launchers, 2 Autocannons.


    List 2:

    HQ: 150pts
    Lord:
    Terminator Armor, Darkblade, Daemonic Essence, Spiky Bits, Demonic Resilience.

    Elites: 218 pts
    5 Chosen in Terminator Armour, 1 Reaper Autocannon, 2 Power Fists, 1 Chain Fist.

    Troops: 654pts
    16 Cultists, MOCU, Assassins (Infiltrate and Furious Charge), Pistol, CCW, Frag, Champion with Power Weapon
    16 Cultists, MOCU, Assassins (Infiltrate and Furious Charge), Pistol, CCW, Frag, Champion with Power Weapon
    8 CSM, MOCU, Infiltrate, Pistol, CCW, 1 Melta Gun, 1 Flamer, Frag, Asp Champion with Fist
    8 CSM, MOCU, Infiltrate, Pistol, CCW, 1 Melta Gun, 1 Flamer, Frag, Asp Champion with Fist

    Fast Attack: 262pts
    6 Raptors, MOCU, Furious Charge, Infiltrate, 2 Melta Guns, Asp Champion Lightning Claws

    Heavy Support: 208pts
    8 Havoks, Infiltrate, MOCU, 2 Missile launchers, 2 Autocannons.


    I think i prefer the second list as i don't have to start on the table with anything, except in Alpha and in Omega i just have my Raptors and HQ + retinue of the table.

    I wanted something that can attack from all directions at once and have cultists, with this brief can you let me know which do you think is better? Is it fluffy?


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  3. #2
    The other Kind of Fluff Rabbit's Avatar
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    946 (x8)

    Interesting concept.

    Both lists are a little light on long range tank busting. Personally, I think both lists would benefit from dropping the bikes (first list) & the termis (second list) and then using those points to purchase an additional havoc squad w/ autocannons & tank hunter. You can also garner points from your lords by dropping essence. Personally, I regard essence as superfulous and not cost effective. The 15 points would greatly improve your havocs, which need tank hunter. I'm going to critique list one, but the same advice can be said of list two.

    List one-

    H.Q.: Drop essence for reasons stated above (+15 points)

    Troops: Drop flamers in favor of an additional melta gun. It's generally bad to mix specal weapons (same for heavy weapons). You want weapons that compliment, such as dual wielding melta guns. The flamer just doesn't work well with the melta. Plus you need more tank busting options (cost of melta upgrades for two squads = 8 points, which, after having 15 left over from your lord, leaves you with +7 points)

    Oh, and the cultists look fine. I've always been envious of you A.L. players for the ability to use these guys, as I'm a disgruntled D.G. player who has since switched to B.L.. At any rate, nice squads.

    Fast: Normally, I'd say drop all of your fast choices, as they are a tad bit too expensive for 1500 points. However, I think your army is an exception, as your tactics somewhat require some heavy hitters that can put early pressure on your opponent. For this reason, I'd stick with the raptors. For one thing, they are more versatile, and simply put, they are fun to use. By dropping the bikers, you now have an extra 195 points, bringing your total to 202 points. Moving along.

    Heavy: I've never gotten good results from mixing heavy weapons in havoc squads, but each to their own. That said, if any weapons can be mixed it's probably the two you've chosen.

    The havocs need tank hunter, especially since they are your only long range support. 24 points for tank hunter leaves you with 178 points remaining. I would suggest using two obliterators, and then using the remaining points to beef up something of your choice. Originally, I mentioned getting another havoc squad, but the only way to do that would either be to drop one of your cultists or drop your raptrs, and both of these options greatly reduces the general theme of your army.

    Hope this helps and good hunting.
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  4. #3
    Aesthete honorableSimon's Avatar
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    I'm pretty much commenting on the second list, the way I wrote my comments came out a bit weird so I hope it's easy to follow, I haven't been getting enough sleep.

    Quote Originally Posted by null_sheen View Post
    HQ: 155pts
    Lord:
    Chaos Bike, Darkblade, Melta Gun, Daemonic Essence, Demonic Aura.
    Interesting. If you drop Essense like the wise Rabbit suggested, you will be started in the direction of a super cheap HQ. I think, tehrefore, that you could drop Aura as well and use your turbo boost for protection. Then, even if some lucky shot drops you early you're not losing many points. Also, if you drop Aura you could drop him to a Lt. but then he might be too small for your liking (110 points for 2 wounds moving 24'' with a 3+ invulnerable?). This is probably more personal preference than anything, I like to pretend my Lord is a worthwhile toarget because he's probably going to die anyway when I play. I actually have come to like Biker HQs a lot, especially with Alpha Legion where they deploy behind everyone else, safe for a short while. I hope he serves you well however you decide to play him.


    Quote Originally Posted by null_sheen View Post
    HQ: 150pts
    Lord:
    Terminator Armor, Darkblade, Daemonic Essence, Spiky Bits, Demonic Resilience.
    Pretty much the same comments as to the other lord, except this guy's less mobile. If you're putting him in the Termie squad then he certainly does not need Essense, as the termies act as additional wounds. And after all, he can still be insta-killed by hidden Power Fists and suchlike.

    Quote Originally Posted by null_sheen View Post
    Elites: 218 pts
    5 Chosen in Terminator Armour, 1 Reaper Autocannon, 2 Power Fists, 1 Chain Fist.
    Much more dangerous @ 6 men with two Reapers. You can even give them Tank Hunting.


    Quote Originally Posted by null_sheen View Post
    16 Cultists, MOCU, Assassins (Infiltrate and Furious Charge), Pistol, CCW, Frag, Champion with Power Weapon
    16 Cultists, MOCU, Assassins (Infiltrate and Furious Charge), Pistol, CCW, Frag, Champion with Power Weapon
    Great.


    Quote Originally Posted by null_sheen View Post
    8 CSM, MOCU, Infiltrate, Pistol, CCW, 1 Melta Gun, 1 Flamer, Frag, Asp Champion with Fist
    8 CSM, MOCU, Infiltrate, Pistol, CCW, 1 Melta Gun, 1 Flamer, Frag, Asp Champion with Fist
    I would just like to second the motion to swap out the Flamers, for the added reason that Flamers on Footsloggers end up being pretty much the same as Bolt Pistols, -1A in CC.


    Quote Originally Posted by null_sheen View Post
    Fast Attack: 262pts
    6 Raptors, MOCU, Furious Charge, Infiltrate, 2 Melta Guns, Asp Champion Lightning Claws
    Great, I love the AL haxx with the both Infiltrate and Furious Charge (I mean obviously it's legit, I just think it's funny) but I would downgrade the Lightning Claws to a Power Weapon with Dæmonic Strength & a Bolt Pistol, and maybe even D. Mutation if you want, you'll find yourself wounding almost as often if not more with Mutation anyway. This drop in points (not as drastic with Mutation) would allow you to pop in another Meltagun or a Flamer (some people around the forum seem to think 2x melta & 1x Flamer on Raptors works well, I've only tried it once but it seemed to work)


    Quote Originally Posted by null_sheen View Post
    Heavy Support: 208pts
    8 Havoks, Infiltrate, MOCU, 2 Missile launchers, 2 Autocannons.
    I would ask Caluin about this squad, he said something about charts proving that 4 Tank Hunting Autocannons are always better than Missile Launchers except against AV14 - if that's what you're worried about then by all means keep them. They certainly need Tank Hunters though.


    In the end I completely agree with the Rabbit's suggestions for your army, although if you're not into oblits then you could consider another squad of CSMs or even Dæmonettes (2x squads of 6 = 180, just gotta find those 2 points) although with Dæmonettes the list turns more and more into a list written by a certain Cactus I think we all know.
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  5. #4
    LO Zealot Ironangel256's Avatar
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    I am going to continue off of Simon's good start and beging by asking a general question: "Why are cultists fielded in AL lists?" Pure and simple answer is to allow them access to Daemons. My advice would be to drop the bikes like rabbit and Simon said and grab yourself a nice fat squad of your favorite warp entity. I would recomend furies to fit with the theme of the list.

    Also, in and of themselves cultist are all around terrible at just about everything. The one thing they can do ( I don't have my codex on me and forgot cult champion point limit) is hide a fist in a huge squad. My advice would be to change those power weapons to fists in the hopes that the cultist squads can bog something down in combat.

    I agree that the havocs need TH and I also like running just a single ML in my havocs Just in case someone decides to be funny and run a LR or MH Pred.
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  6. #5
    The other Kind of Fluff Rabbit's Avatar
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    946 (x8)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ironangel256 View Post
    Also, in and of themselves cultist are all around terrible at just about everything. The one thing they can do ( I don't have my codex on me and forgot cult champion point limit) is hide a fist in a huge squad. My advice would be to change those power weapons to fists in the hopes that the cultist squads can bog something down in combat.
    No can do. The max points that can be spent on the cultist a.c. is 10. Otherwise, I'm fairly certain that null_sheen would have upgrade the power weapon to a fist.
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  7. #6
    Member null_sheen's Avatar
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    Thank you for all your replies:

    The reason i have the melta/flamer combo is because in my area i have as much Nidzilla and normal Nids as there is MEQ.
    I already think im a little weak against Nidzilla i don't want to loose anymore anti hoard (ripper) action.
    The MEQ also appear to take LRC too, i have faced one in the last three tourneys i have been to so i don't really want to loose the missile launchers just yet either.

    Anyhow, i have made a few changes and here is the list below, im not really after a big lord as i personally don't see how he could infiltrate Imperium society. I almost thought about a sorcerer with Gift of Chaos at one point.

    Alpha Legion: 1500pts

    HQ: 150pts
    Lord:
    Infiltrate, Furious Charge, Darkblade, Daemonic Aura, Daemonic Strength, Spiky Bits.

    Elites: 140pts
    2 Obliterators

    Troops: 674pts
    16 Cultists, MOCU, Assassins (Infiltrate and Furious Charge), Pistol, CCW, Frag, Champion with Power Weapon
    16 Cultists, MOCU, Assassins (Infiltrate and Furious Charge), Pistol, CCW, Frag, Champion with Power Weapon
    8 CSM, MOCU, Infiltrate, Pistol, CCW, 1 Melta Gun, 1 Flamer, Frag, Asp Champion, Spiky Bits, Power Fist
    8 CSM, MOCU, Infiltrate, Pistol, CCW, 1 Melta Gun, 1 Flamer, Frag, Asp Champion, Spiky Bits, Power Fist

    Fast Attack: 304pts
    7 Raptors, MOCU, Infiltrate, Furious Charge, 2 Melta Guns, Asp Champion, Lightning Claws, Spiky Bits.

    Heavy Support: 232pts
    8 Havocs, Infiltrate, Tank Hunters, MOCU, 2 Missile Launchers’, 2 Autocannons.

    I have also been thinking of changing at least one of the CSM units into Bolters and twin plasma guns and use them as a firebase. With the raptors and 2 x cultist units doing the HtH stuff and the CSM, Havocs and oblits doing the covering fire?
    Last edited by null_sheen; May 2nd, 2007 at 07:09.

  8. #7
    The other Kind of Fluff Rabbit's Avatar
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    946 (x8)

    Looks much better. The only thing I would definitely change would be to give your lord daemonic speed and allow him that first-turn charge. You can easily achieve this by dropping furious charge. Or, you could drop daemonic strength instead and then try and find some other place in your army for the additional 5 points. I might suggest taking it from one of your cultist squads by reducing their numbers to 17.
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  9. #8
    Senior Member Lord Ramon's Avatar
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    Your new list is much better, though I'd still make a few tweaks.

    Firstly remember that in non-Infiltrate games, your whole strategy may fall apart, so you need a fall-back position with this list.

    I totally agree with Rabbit that your Lord needs D.Speed. If not, give him Wings so he can join with the Raptors.

    Put both Flamers in one CSM unit, and both Meltas in the other. Having said that, as you have been considering it anyway, lose the Flamers/BP for Bolters/2 Plasma guns = a much better option.

    Give your Cult Champs Power Fists, as their poor Strength won't allow their Power Weapons to acheive much. Also give your Raptor Champ a PF and lose the Spiky Bits (he's already very expensive). Then he'll be able to bash large Nids and armour. If your model currently has LC, it's easy just to cut the fingers off, and make the fist bigger.

    If you are facing so many Nids, are Cultists really the way to go? Even weeny Gaunts with pop guns can Assault them.

    Hope this helps, and good luck.

    Lord Ramon

  10. #9
    Sadomachiatto Karmoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Ramon View Post
    Give your Cult Champs Power Fists, as their poor Strength won't allow their Power Weapons to acheive much.
    As the Rabbit mentioned earlier.

    Cult champs may not take a powerfist. Their points limit caps off at that point.

    Depending on how you feel about daemonic gifts on champs you could possible take the genestealer cult champ. (daemonic str. daemonic talons, spikey bits).

    The legality of this is up for debate, although can be rule lawyered if you're feeling aggresive.
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  11. #10
    The other Kind of Fluff Rabbit's Avatar
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    946 (x8)

    Quote Originally Posted by Karmoon View Post
    As the Rabbit mentioned earlier.

    Cult champs may not take a powerfist. Their points limit caps off at that point.

    Depending on how you feel about daemonic gifts on champs you could possible take the genestealer cult champ. (daemonic str. daemonic talons, spikey bits).

    The legality of this is up for debate, although can be rule lawyered if you're feeling aggresive.
    I believe your suggestion is indeed legal, as the d. strength & spiky bits come from the armory & not the specific weapon section.
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