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  1. #1
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    1850 Versatile Chaos Marines list

    Wondering if you guys could offer any feedback on my 1850 point list, i play against a few of my friends and people at the local GW. However my friends and i are quite competitive, so theres not too much concern about "fun" factor. heh.

    Ive been playing with more or less this list for a while now, and have been pretty succesful. Mix of games against Necrons, SM, Tau, Tyranids, and occasionally IG. I have the hardest time by far against Tau.

    HQ:

    Chaos Lord -210
    Mark: None
    Weapons: Twin-Master Crafted Lightning Claws
    Deamonic Mutations: Strength, Mutation, Resilience, Rune
    Wargear: Terminator Armour, Spiky Bits

    Elites:

    9 Terminators, 3 Repear-Auto Cannons, 3 Chain Fists -410

    3 Obliterators - 210

    5 Possesed - 200ish
    Mutation, Rending
    -Rhino

    Troops:

    8 Chaos Space Marines - 200ish
    Champion with power weapon and pistol
    2 Plasma Guns

    8 Chaos Space Marines - 200ish
    Champion with power weapon and pistol
    2 Plasma Guns

    Heavy:

    6 Havocs
    Champion, 4 Heavy Bolters - 180ish

    6 Havocs - 250ish
    Champion, 4 Lascannons


    I cant remember the exact point values as i don't have my codex on hand (at work :shifty. But these are pretty close, and it comes out to 1850 if i have not forgotten anything.

    Depending on what army playing against, ill either hang back and rely on my shooting strength and counter charge. Or stick it to them and try and rush forward. (leaving the havocs back obviously).

    My Lord will often use the terminators as a retuine, as hes kind of fat and slow to be going out by himself. I am definitely questioning the efficiency of my possessed for their point values. If they get into combat, they typically ruin things. 20 rending attacks on the charge...ouch. But being mounted in the only vehicle in my army makes them tend to die pretty fast. Not much survivability.

    oh and i guess i should mention that i like to keep the same army list against everyone i play, i feel switching it up for a specific opponent is kind of lame.

    Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. thanks.


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  3. #2
    The other Kind of Fluff Rabbit's Avatar
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    946 (x8)

    General observations: For an 1850 point build, your army seems a little short on tank-busting options. As well, several of your units are very slow.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alkuan View Post

    Chaos Lord -210
    Mark: None
    Weapons: Twin-Master Crafted Lightning Claws
    Deamonic Mutations: Strength, Mutation, Resilience, Rune
    Wargear: Terminator Armour, Spiky Bits
    Termi lords have yet to prove themselves in my book. They're slow, and there are plenty of other options available to chaos players that far surpass termi lords, including the first turn charge lord (i.e., infiltrate & daemonic speed), the statured prince tooled to the teeth, and even the cheap chaos liuet with a Kai gun and daemonic flight.

    Here are some suggestions for your termi lord:
    1- Drop mutation in favor of spiky bits. It's cheaper and effectively accomplishes the same thing. That said, your lord has ample attacks without either mutation or spiky bits
    2- Drop rune. It's way overpriced, and you should be positioning your lord for c.c. in a manner that avoids instant kill weapons. Rune is particularly wasted, if your lord has a retinue.

    This pup should also have the Mark of Chaos Undivided. It's a very good upgrade that will keep your lord in c.c.. You don't want him falling back and running the risk of fleeing off the board due to a bad sweeping advance roll.

    Note: A movement modifier, such as daemonic speed or flight, greatly increases your lord's ability to avoid units with instant kill weapons. This is yet another reason why people elect against taking termi lords; they are slow and difficult to get into c.c.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alkuan View Post
    Elites:

    9 Terminators, 3 Repear-Auto Cannons, 3 Chain Fists -410
    You've got way too many points invested in this unit. Chaos isn't well known for having effective terminators, which is why most chaos players avoid them. If you're going to keep this unit, I'd suggest dropping them down to a bare six with two reapers, 2 chain fists & one to two power fists. The remaining points should be spent increasing your durability of your havocs (I'll get to this later)
    Quote Originally Posted by Alkuan View Post
    3 Obliterators - 210
    Nice.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alkuan View Post
    5 Possesed - 200ish
    Mutation, Rending
    -Rhino
    As you said, this squad often has difficulty getting into c.c.. They're way overpriced for five models. Currently, chaos possessed aren't worth their slot, though, this will hopefully change with the coming codex. Overall, it's best to drop this unit in favor of more basic chaos marines.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alkuan View Post
    8 Chaos Space Marines - 200ish
    Champion with power weapon and pistol
    2 Plasma Guns

    8 Chaos Space Marines - 200ish
    Champion with power weapon and pistol
    2 Plasma Guns
    Pretty good. Three things:

    1- They need some way of getting into c.c. and/or taking table corners for this related missions. Your best option is infiltrate. It's cheap and very consistent. Rhinos work decently well, but your army isn't designed for the rhino rush. However, if you want to use rhinos, then I suggest taking as many as possible and backing them up with a couple of predators. It's always important in a rhino based army to have predators, because they help draw fire away from your rhinos.

    2- In chaos marine squads of seven wounds or more, you need a power fist. The basic power weapon does not produce enough wounds. Plus, you want this unit to be able to manage monstrous creatures.

    3- It's generally a good idea to put daemonic mutation on your a.c's.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alkuan View Post
    6 Havocs
    Champion, 4 Heavy Bolters - 180ish
    Six wounds isn't enough to keep this squad alive at the 1850 point value. You need a minimum of seven wounds.

    One more thing: The Mark of Chaos Undivided is infinitely beneficial to these kinds of units. For eight points it will literally save them against enemy c.c. squads, especially against Nids and Dark Eldar.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alkuan View Post
    6 Havocs - 250ish
    Champion, 4 Lascannons
    This unit is very top heavy, meaning that you're spending an inordinate amount of points on six models that can easily be killed- i.e, you only have two wounds, before you start losing expensive lascanons.

    For chaos, lascanons havocs are very expensive (as you might have noticed). For 30 points less, you can take an eight man havoc squad with four autocannons and give them tank hunter. This configuration puts out far more firepower for its point value and is much (MUCH) more effective against Tau and Eldar skimmers. It's one of the best tank busting units in the game and also works well against light to medium armored infantry.

    In this regard, I would strongly recommend that you drop the heavy bolter havocs altogether and take another eight man havoc squad with autocannons & tank hunter.

    oh and i guess i should mention that i like to keep the same army list against everyone i play, i feel switching it up for a specific opponent is kind of lame.
    [/QUOTE]
    Last edited by Rabbit; July 12th, 2007 at 22:05.
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    This seems like great advice, ill definitely try out a deamon prince in my next game. I ill drop the termies and posssed see how i do with a couple more squads of marines with plasma guns and infiltrate. Maybe 4 squads of 8 guys instead of 2.

    As far as the havocs go, i feel like i would be really hard pressed to deal with things like monoliths/hive tyrants with extended carapace and crap like that without them. Autocannons couldnt even hurt a monolith (tank hunters is ignored). On the other hand the increased versatility would be pretty awesome, and they will certainly tear up anything with less than 14 armour. What do you suggest for dealing with that? since i do agree with you that the lascannons are savagely expensive.

    thanks a ton for your input, sagely advice.

  5. #4
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    so i tried out what you suggested, played a game against necrons today, using the following list. i basically totally savaged my opponent. the highlight of the game being when my lord survived a turn of his entire army rapid firing at him. (100 gauss shots, 20 imortal shots). lucky rolloing, toughness 6 and feel no pain for the win. downside is ill have to buy a ton of new guys if i want to actually field this army without any proxies. /sigh

    Chaos Marines List 1832 / 1850

    Name: Wargear:
    HQ:
    1 Deamon Prince 196
    Deamonic Stature
    Deamonic Speed
    Dread Axe
    Deamonic Strength
    Deamonic Toughness
    MoKhorne, Charge
    Feel No Pain
    Deamonic Mutation
    Bolt Pistol
    Spiky Bits
    *removed* infiltrate *removed*

    Elites:
    3 Obliterators 210


    Troops:
    4x 8 Chaos Marines 195
    Champion
    2 Plasma Gun
    Power Fist
    Bolt Pistol
    Infiltrate

    5 Bloodletters 130


    Heavy:

    2x 8 Havocs 237
    Champion
    4 Autocannon
    Tank Hunters
    MoCU

    8 Havocs 237
    Champion
    4 Missle Launchers
    Tank Hunters
    MoCU
    Last edited by Alkuan; July 21st, 2007 at 17:26.

  6. #5
    The other Kind of Fluff Rabbit's Avatar
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    946 (x8)

    I'm very happy you did well. Unfortuanately, your h.q. is illegale.
    1- Cannot take infiltrate on models with the Mark of Khorn
    2- Cannot take infiltrate on models with daemonic stature.

    Other than that, your army looks pretty good. I prefer larger bloodletter squads, but each to their own.

    Again, congrats. Havocs are amazing, aren't they?
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  7. #6
    LO Zealot Ironangel256's Avatar
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    Also, it should be mentioned that any model with a mark may not have more than one vet skill.
    IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT!

    I survived LO Chat thanks to: Karmoon, Rabbit, Process, Tossy and Meish.

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