Daemon Codex?

[andrewbeater]

I just read on a popular 40k website that it is possible that a new Daemons codex is rumoured for 2013. And since EVERYTHING on the internet must be true, I'm excited. Yes I'm joking. But it sounds good. It is rumoured that there will be some new Greater Daemons available in this new release. Oh how I dare to dream.

[experiment 626]

Well, the way I look at it;
a) Chaos Marines get access to the basic cult daemons, ('letters, 'nettes, plaguies, pinkies), in their new codex at much lower costs and with similar/cloned abilities to our own versions when their new codex drops. (rumored to be either in May/June or Aug/Oct)

b) 6th edition's main changes do crap all to help us overall while providing decent buffs to pretty much everyone else.

c) Both of the above!

I think it will be pretty much a 100% confirmation that we'd be early in the cue of 6th ed books if those silly spiky marines get 'better' versions of our basic troops. Look what GW did with the undead in Fantasy.
TK's came out in early summer last year and got skeletons at half the cost of what VC's paid and for a better statline to boot!
VC's come out 6 months later so that they're not being forced to pay a moronic premium for the same damn thing.

[andrewbeater]

Since I play both CSM and Daemons, I will feel better as soon as this year when the new CSM codex comes out. Don't get me wrong, Daemons are my first army love and I love playing them, but CSM need love right now. The CSM codex is getting really stale. The only reason Daemons need a new codex is because of a bit of creep seeping in from newer codex upgrades. Except the survivability of Daemonettes and Bloodletters, Warpquake from GK and lousy Deep Striking ability, our codex is still pretty good.

[experiment 626]

What I'd honestly like to see us get in a new 'dex;
- Return of the Exalted Daemon as a replacement HQ for Heralds. Basically a character around the statlines of a space marine captain with the ability to take marks, various upgrades and the like. Add options for mounts/chariot.

- Heralds become a unit similar to a Royal Court/Archon's Court with a few minor upgrade options and the ability to split them off the unit and join their respective marked squads. Doesn't use up and HQ slot obviously!

- The return of units like Pleasureseerers, Plagueriders & Changebringers.

- Daemon engines!

- Psychic abilities and some psychic defense!

- re-pointing of our existing units to make them more cost effective and bring them in line with the other newer generation books.

- Mat Ward to be chained-up in a deep dark hole and the key thrown away untill after our book is finished & released!!!



That's my personal dream for how to refresh and bring our army into 6th edition.

[Marius the Possessed]

Problem with the Daemon codex release is that GW will almost certainly want to release 40k daemons the same time as Fantasy Battle ones. And while I don't play Fantasy Battle, aren't daemons relatively new codex-wise? There are so many more armies in Fantasy that have older codexes, I doubt Daemons will get an update there, which means they won't get updated in 40k. Why? Because GW will make far more money releasing two armies at once, even if they're the same army, and a new codex would mean a bunch of new units and models, and releasing them for 40k and not FB is not only a big middle finger to Fantasy players, it also takes away any of the surprise factor that those units will get when they become Fantasy releases. Because seriously, the Soul Grinder is the ONLY 40k daemon unit that isn't in fantasy.

[experiment 626]

Problem with the Daemon codex release is that GW will almost certainly want to release 40k daemons the same time as Fantasy Battle ones. And while I don't play Fantasy Battle, aren't daemons relatively new codex-wise? There are so many more armies in Fantasy that have older codexes, I doubt Daemons will get an update there, which means they won't get updated in 40k. Why? Because GW will make far more money releasing two armies at once, even if they're the same army, and a new codex would mean a bunch of new units and models, and releasing them for 40k and not FB is not only a big middle finger to Fantasy players, it also takes away any of the surprise factor that those units will get when they become Fantasy releases. Because seriously, the Soul Grinder is the ONLY 40k daemon unit that isn't in fantasy.

Fantasy Daemons of Chaos came out in May '08, so the book is starting to age. The older books are currently;
- Brets. GW has no idea how to expand on them and make them fit in with 8th ed.
- Wood Elves. Same problem that the Brets have, only worse!
- Dwarfs. Rumored to be within the batch of 2-3 books awaiting release.
- Empire. Rumored to be released in April.
- High Elves. Not quite as godly as they were in 7th due to things like the step-up rule, but they're far from broken crap.

A few of the rumor mongers are actually hinting at Daemons for 2013!

Much to what alot of Fantasy players may say, the book is badly in need of redoing, simply to add some god damn balance to the thing!
On the 40k side, some fresh units/options to bring us in line is highly needed, as well as some way to counter those filthy GK's.

[ikbuh]

I think Greater Daemons should count as a sort of super icon for their own aligned units and regular icon to everything else. Call it the Will of the Gods or something and what I mean by super icon is that similarly aligned units don't scatter and can not mishap within 12" of the Greater Daemon, though other placement rules still apply (IE no impossible).

I feel that daemons should have the option of having something start of the table because if the planet/base/whatever is infested with daemons, there's bound to be some stuff there already. Something like up to half may start on the board and half the of the rest use the assault rule (half turn one and the rest in reserve).

Some of the lessers should have a slight points drop (daemonettes/Pinkies), plague bearers (and all of the Nurgle units) should lose Slow and Purposeful or have a significant points drop because it makes them worthless (even PBs are dead weight if there's nothing to score), bloodletters should have a 4+ armor save to make them a little more durable for their points, though they shouldn't really be cheaper because they still cause a lot of damage.

Beasts of Nurgle need to be made worthwhile, and I think that can be done by adding in a rule (to all nurgle units) that forces toughness test or cause instant death on any to hit roll of a 6 as they succumb to Nurgle's Rot. Against vehicles, it drops armor by 1 as it rusts away.

Seekers should be made worth taking over Fiends because they're pretty much the same thing, but fiends are better.

Screamers should just count as MCs in close combat and get a flyby attack like they have in fantasy.

Give flamers daemonic gaze instead of warpfire.

Give Soul Grinders a 5+ invul save.

Furies... I have no idea. They're bad xD

Then whatever new units (daemon engines!) will be included.

[experiment 626]

Furies as they are just need to be super cheap in pts. Consider just how much more usefull they'd be if they only cost say 6-7pts/model?! Now you can take hordes of them as bolter bait and/or to lock down shooty units for a turn or two while the rest of your gribblies get to grips.

Currently though, they're the most expensive chaff unit in the game. I honestly consider them to be 40k's version of VC zombies prior to their recent book that came out in Jan.

[ikbuh]

That would be nice, but they'd have to cost less than $6/model like they do now xD

[experiment 626]

That would be nice, but they'd have to cost less than $6/model like they do now xD

Warseer let slip a rummor that plastic Furies could be in the works for a future release...

At the very least, you can always do them on the cheap by hitting up the bitz websites for 'nid gargoyle wings and slapping them onto daemonette bodies.
I converted mine out of the metal fury wings, (bought w/staff discount), beastmen ungor bodies & arms, bloodletter feet and bestigor heads.