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  1. #1
    Skeletor=Pimp. Stunted_Merc's Avatar
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    From concept to reality.

    With the buzz currently about the CD's (Supposed) remake, I've been reading this forum in earnest for new rumors and to see just how well the CD support and activity is. Most of the topics I am seeing though consist of really old news or things, like from the SoC era.

    Anyways a bit about myself first: I'm an on again off again CD player, and any army in fantasy you can think of I've probably played at least once. CD armies have always interested me, for one because no one played them, and for two they seemed an interesting concept. For some reason I detest regular Dwarfs, the only Fantasy army I have yet to play, yet I'm absolutely in love with their dark cousins. I just recently got a brain storm to convert the Skull Pass box into an effective CD army and dusted off my old sheets of the codex, ready to bring the pain!

    My notable success with them so far have been: Winning a Fantasy Warbands campaign, some SoC tournaments along with other evil to neutral races, humiliating my friends Dwarfs with them and a Skaven ally noteworthy enough to go into his famed "Book of Grudges" and stumping the store owner on a regular basis.

    I decided to spice up the CD activity here to show they can be interesting and to help inform people about who they are exactly and what they do. I'd also like to see guesstimations on what units would be seen or want to be seen in the new book, among other things.

    I found it odd that the CD's greatest enemy and mine, Gav Thorpe, has decided to possibly head this project or at least watch over it fiercly. I have no doubt he will screw the image of them up for most people, like the one's for one reason or another are obsessed with the cooky big hat look (GW was young, and made mistakes like most do.) I for one am with the Minority on this one that they look ridiculous, and by not letting this die it affects what GW wants to do with them realistically. I want to seem them look dark, forboding like the Hellcannon crew, not like miniature communistic Russians hell bent on making my knees hurt with a good thwacking.

    So to start of the speculation and ideas there is one new unit and one old unit I'd like to see: That would be the Iron Golems and the Bazooka teams. I had an interesting theory that if brought back, the B.Teams could act like Skaven Ratling Guns or Warpfire Throwers, used as unit attachments. I don't know their old rules and if they did this or not, but it would be nice to an Artillery heavy force. One thing I failed to mention is my love of Cannons, and I would like to see an actual Cannon for the CD's, as I don't like Stone Throwers or their rules for the various Rockets. The Iron Golems could be our ticket to the standard 3 wound creatures abound in Warhammer. They could be upgraded to have multiple components, like ranged weaponry or additional benefits in a close combat encounter.


    Just my thoughts on a few things, I hope to contribute to this site and help the other people I've seen here spark some interest in the CD's, don't let us go the way of the Squats!


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  3. #2
    Hex
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    Blistering Barnacles! Hex's Avatar
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    I think that the majority hate the big hats, and though I don't particurlarly dislike Gav I will if he's slowing the process of CD becoming a main army!

    These are great ideas :yes:. I was also thinking of interesting CD units, for instance Rat Trolls and Battle Wagons. Iron Golems would be great but expensive, though Bazookas seem a bit too far in the future for FB. But this will probably not happen. Oh well, I s'pose you can improvise rules!

    Now, about my own made up units: Rat Trolls are warpstone-mutated trolls like Rat Ogres except bigger. They require CD masters and they're hairy and have long spiked teeth and regenerate.

    Battle Wagons are huge wagons with Dwarf gunners and rockets and various other weapons on them. They can be upgraded with Rockets, extra Dwarfs, Catapults, Plague-infested donkeys etc etc.

    All this is very nice to dream up but it is not a reality... yet . As before hopefully there are some great surprises in the new book and I agree the current list is boring and uninventive.

    - Hex
    "Well... that hurt" - Vampire Jon Skellan (Mannfred's right hand man) after being beaten up, falling down an underground waterfall and being impaled by a stalactite.

  4. #3
    Skeletor=Pimp. Stunted_Merc's Avatar
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    I like the ideas, though I don't think GW wants to bring out anymore rodents for their game, which I hate (A Playtipus army...c'mon it'll sell GW) The battle Wagon idea sounds interesting though, I thought I saw something like that for them before, but it could have been completely different. You could have like a ram upgrade or spikes to give it incentive to charge, letting it cause Impact hits to units it charges. You could have slaves pushing it, and for like every five or ten slaves you buy for it the Battle Wagon gains an extra inch.

    I like that idea the Hand of Hashut forums had for Daemons and how they could be used. Instead of bounding them in machines or directly into stuff I thought it'd be cooler if they were in Runes like their cousins, to further mock them. I also want a rule for the infantry to justify their point cost. Since these Dwarfs (GW doesn't use Dwarves for some reason) have lost their sense of honor, they could have a rule that exploits this. Maybe called "Dishonor among kin" Or something, where the CD's can exploit weaknesses in other armies, while in the same situation their cousins would give fair play.

  5. #4
    Hex
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    These further thoughts are great...

    I drew up some of these ideas today... is dropped the Rat Troll idea since this is too much like Rat Ogres, but huge Battle Wagons are good and I also love the Iron Golem idea. How about these rules for Iron Golems:

    ----------------------------------

    Iron Golem

    M8 WS4 BS3 S6 T5 W3 I2 A2 LD7 PTS100

    Equipment: Claws, Brace of Guns, Plated Black Gromril Armour (3+)

    Special Rules: Fear, Large Target, Unbreakable, Unit Strength 5, Brace of Guns (causes D6 S5 hits. If you roll a 1 when rolling to hit then the Iron Golem takes D3 S5 hits)

    Unit Size: 1+

    ----------------------------------

    Or did you think they should be less of a monster and more of a 50pts thing?

    My other ideas were carts with Dwarf Gunmen inside and Rocket Launchers like the Death Rocket but more like early fireworks - risky, but extremely destructive, not like the stupid stone thrower as it is currently.

    The Wagons, as you said, should either be pulled by slaves or powered by steam, and cause chariot impact hits. For the latter they should fail and stop if you're unlucky, and I like your upgrades - currently these are spikes, rocks, rockets, plague-infested donkeys, CD gunners and slaves, making them a very interesting and fun choice. I shall be coming up with rules for them soon.

    Keep up the thoughts!

    - Hex
    "Well... that hurt" - Vampire Jon Skellan (Mannfred's right hand man) after being beaten up, falling down an underground waterfall and being impaled by a stalactite.

  6. #5
    Hex
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    These further thoughts are great...

    I drew up some of these ideas today... is dropped the Rat Troll idea since this is too much like Rat Ogres, but huge Battle Wagons are good and I also love the Iron Golem idea. How about these rules for Iron Golems:

    ----------------------------------

    Iron Golem

    M8 WS4 BS3 S6 T5 W3 I2 A2 LD7 PTS100

    Equipment: Claws, Brace of Guns, Plated Black Gromril Armour (3+)

    Special Rules: Fear, Large Target, Unbreakable, Unit Strength 5, Brace of Guns (causes D6 S5 hits. If you roll a 1 when rolling to hit then the Iron Golem takes D3 S5 hits)

    Unit Size: 1+

    ----------------------------------

    Or did you think they should be less of a monster and more of a 50pts thing?

    My other ideas were carts with Dwarf Gunmen inside and Rocket Launchers like the Death Rocket but more like early fireworks - risky, but extremely destructive, not like the stupid stone thrower as it is currently.

    The Wagons, as you said, should either be pulled by slaves or powered by steam, and cause chariot impact hits. For the latter steam-powered choice they should fail and stop if you're unlucky, and I like your upgrades - currently these are spikes, rocks, rockets, plague-infested donkeys, CD gunners and slaves, making them a very interesting and fun choice. I shall be coming up with rules for them soon.

    Keep up the thoughts!

    - Hex
    "Well... that hurt" - Vampire Jon Skellan (Mannfred's right hand man) after being beaten up, falling down an underground waterfall and being impaled by a stalactite.

  7. #6
    Hex
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    Blistering Barnacles! Hex's Avatar
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    These further thoughts are great...

    I drew up some of these ideas today... is dropped the Rat Troll idea since this is too much like Rat Ogres, but huge Battle Wagons are good and I also love the Iron Golem idea. How about these rules for Iron Golems:

    ----------------------------------

    Iron Golem

    M8 WS4 BS3 S6 T5 W3 I2 A2 LD7 PTS100

    Equipment: Claws, Brace of Guns, Plated Black Gromril Armour (3+)

    Special Rules: Fear, Large Target, Unbreakable, Unit Strength 5, Brace of Guns (causes D6 S5 hits. If you roll a 1 when rolling to hit then the Iron Golem takes D3 S5 hits)

    Unit Size: 1+

    ----------------------------------

    Please tell me if anything needs changing.

    Or did you think they should be less of a monster and more of a 50pts thing?

    My other ideas were carts with Dwarf Gunmen inside and Rocket Launchers like the Death Rocket but more like early fireworks - risky, but extremely destructive, not like the stupid stone thrower as it is currently.

    The Wagons, as you said, should either be pulled by slaves or powered by steam, and cause chariot impact hits. For the latter steam-powered choice they should fail and stop if you're unlucky, and I like your upgrades - currently these are spikes, rocks, rockets, plague-infested donkeys, CD gunners and slaves, making them a very interesting and fun choice. I shall be coming up with rules for them soon.

    Keep up the thoughts!

    - Hex
    "Well... that hurt" - Vampire Jon Skellan (Mannfred's right hand man) after being beaten up, falling down an underground waterfall and being impaled by a stalactite.

  8. #7
    Skeletor=Pimp. Stunted_Merc's Avatar
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    I think the movement aspect of the Golems should be taken down to like 6, 8 seems to much for a giant walking furnace lol. Also another drawback would be nice, maybe something to do with it being experimental or steam powered, as it's a relatively new technology. Maybe they take Leadership checks in the form of stupidity, and if they fail the mechanics clunk, and they can't move for a turn but may still fire their weaponry.

    I thought about rules for the Weapon Teams last night, and I got the Rocket one covered (If Empire are getting them we should as well!)

    Weapon Team: Rockets-30 Pts.

    Crew: Two Chaos Dwarfs (One gunner and one loader).

    Stats: M-3, WS-4, S-3, T-4, W-1, I-3, LD-9.

    Move or Fire.

    Unit Attachment: Weapon Teams are unit upgrades for Chaos Dwarf Warriors, and as such must remain within 3 inches of it's parent unit.

    Rockets: Target a unit you are shooting at, Role one artillery dice and one D6 for range (So max 16 inches.) Wherever it stops the shot detonates, causing Str. 5 armour piercing hits under the small blast template. If the Artillery Dice comes up a misfire, rolla D6 on chart below.

    1- Explosion! The Rocket becomes jammed, detonating within the tube. Center the small blast template upon the team. Any model underneath takes a Str.5 hit with no armour saves allowed, remove the Weapon Team when hits and wounds are resolved.

    2 through 4- Dud. The rocket takes off and lands without any explosion, much to the distaste of the crew.

    5 through 6- Too much fuel! The rocket takes off with a mighty roar, zipping across the sky before finally plummeting to the ground. Roll a scatter dice along with the Artillery and D6. Move the rocket in the direction indicated by the Scatter Dice and resolve hits against the unit. If no unit is hit, consider it a Dud.

    So is it balanced or a little off? I personally like it, and it's chart keeps the nice price from seeming too good.
    Last edited by Stunted_Merc; September 6th, 2006 at 20:59.

  9. #8
    Member xcom's Avatar
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    The "current" CD army list has lots of orcs and goblins in it. Granted as rare/special choices only. How much do you want to bet that they'll cut them from the revision when and if they really do it? I think slave units do fit in for them, but something other then maybe then greenskins. I do like the idea of golem in thier army. I think it would fit in well with thier history/theme. Maybe minor demons like hounds and furies would fit well too.

  10. #9
    Hex
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    Blistering Barnacles! Hex's Avatar
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    Sorry, I forgot a rule for the Iron Golems: (Mechanical: Due to the huge weight of the armour they cannot march move), and I'm also sorry for posting 3 times... some sort of error in the database.

    I think that your rules for the rocket are fine, though perhaps underpriced for the potential effectiveness (well, I forgot the ratling guns and their cheap price for a sec, actually I think that the rocket team's price is good). By lowering the cost of the rocket team to 25pts I think that they should misfire on a 1 and 2, since they're very dodgy, though they should 'Too much fuel' on a 5 and 6. Otherwise it's great.

    I agree with you xcom... the current list is MUCH too greeny. Some more machinations in the new rules should fix that just fine . CD's with mechanical wings would be a good idea for them, if not too far fetched... slaves are a good idea, preferably Good Dwarf ones - though they would probably kill themselves rather than suffer the humiliation of their evil cousins!

    Keep on thinking up great rules !

    Hex
    Last edited by Hex; September 6th, 2006 at 20:25.
    "Well... that hurt" - Vampire Jon Skellan (Mannfred's right hand man) after being beaten up, falling down an underground waterfall and being impaled by a stalactite.

  11. #10
    Skeletor=Pimp. Stunted_Merc's Avatar
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    Yeah now that you mentioned it 5-6 "Too much fuel!" would be better, I'll edit it after posting this. To Xcom: I really dislike all the Greenskin units within the army currently, and the only one's I ever consider using are the Hobgoblins, which are the slave units. I say that 10 out of 10 that GW will remove most if not all of them with the next book, since they want to go for a more industrial feel.

    To Hex: Yeah I like that rule for them, it makes sense and my previous fix of it isn't needed, don't worry about the triple post, all it did was get my hopes up that more people were participating lol. But we got one more person, so that's something. I might do a battle today with the 500 pt. list I created (Another thread here contains it) and if so I will post the results, if not I know I will Saturday, so expect it by the end of the week.

    I'll try to think up some more rules and units for them and post a few when I return home, until the meantime my brain needs a rest.

    S_M.

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