Raptors; Squad size and equipment.

[danceman]

Hello everyone, recently started a CSM army(I needed something while waiting for the new DE book). I like the feel of the Raptors, very similiar to DE with the whole scarecrow thing going for them. The list I am working with at the moment is a shooty Tzeentch list but also making an offencive version.

The question though, is how to equip them. For example in my shooty list, I feel that the maxed out unit of 10 is sucking too much points(and is really clumbersome to move around).
What I was thinking of doing is including 2 squads of 5 with meltaguns and pairs of lightening claws.

My questions is what is your experience using these guys? positive or negative, doesnt matter.
Many do you field and what do you think works best, small or big squads? And finally, what kind of equipment do you give them?

Cheers, Danceman.

[Karmoon]

Errrrrr... I seem to have posted this in the wrong place lol, move to CSM forum please

Gyahahahaha!

*karmoon laughs and points at danceman*

Moved for ya.

Raptors are incredible units. Very fast and very good at pressure. Also very stylish units if you have the balls to deepstrike them, like me.

As for armaments... it depends on what you need them to do, they're fairly flexible.

Having good movement makes them natural candidates for twin flamers (crowd control) or twin meltas (tank control).

If you want them just for those specific purposes, then take small squads with the special weapons, cause the damage and then cause mischeif.

An alternative roll for them is a quick teleport bus stop. if you give one of them an Icon, they can zoom around the battlefield pooing out obliterators, terminators etc etc.

The naked champ GD drop is also a personal favourite of mine. Get the raptors stuck in, and then stick a GD in the enemy's face. You'll make friends like that, I promise

If you want an all around unit, then yes, raptors cost points. you'll need a decent number... 8 or so, and then probably twin meltas is your best bet.

As for the champ... select lightning claws ONLY if you're going up against Marines with no dreads or Eldar with no Wraithlords.

Otherwise a Powerfist will serve you better against a greater range of opponents.

The above points are regardless to having the Icon of Slaanesh or not.

cheers,

Papa K

[Thyr]

7 Raptors w/ the Icon of Slaanesh and 2 meltaguns accompanied by an Aspiring Champoin w/ a pair of lightning claws and some meltaboms for 225 pts make the trick for me. They are quite effective against a wide range of targets and they are just enought to have a good chance to wipe out most infantry unit on a charge.

[Rabbit]

Just to add on what's already been mentioned, for renaissance squads, having the IoK really helps out in any scenario. The especially applies to both raptors and chosen. I'd recommend an 8 man unit with 2 meltas, IoK, and a fisting champ. For 250 points, you've got yourself a squad that delivers a high number of attacks, and can even withstand being charged and still put out a respectable kill ratio.

EDIT: Thyr, your Slaaneshi raptor squad should come to 225 points (not 240 )

[recoman3]

Depending on the points I have available I have 6-8 raptors flying around with my Sorc w/ steed. My shooty Tzeentch army is awesome but lacks anti tank and anti horde, I generally give these guys the anti tank role with dual melta guns and melta bomb.

Because my army is so shooty I give these guys the IoK and get them into assault - the icon is also good for deepstriking the termies (though nowadays I DS without the icon for added excitement).

However, they die way too fast - I am used to the invulnerable saves from the 1k sons, so they quickly become the target of vindicators and other ap3 products that someone may have. This is why I keep the squad small, helps hide them better.

Another problem is they can't hide behind rhinos cause they are so damn tall, so they end up taking a long flanking route..

The 450 point unit might not be the best thing to take, but in a 1000 pt game my tzeentch army is as shooty as it is assaulty - my only problem becomes horde armies..

P.S. Here I like the dual lightning claws for the champ. Walkers usually get ripped appart by the melta guns, WoC etc. Against a high T monstrous creature the reroll to wound might not be as effective as having a power fist, but for everything else it's pretty awesome.

[Xardian]

For me, Raptors make excellent lawn mower units. I leave the main anti-tank to things like obliterators, CSM with meltas / fists, etc. 8 strong with lightning claw champ and 2 flamers.

I used to run them with IoK for the extra attacks. They could typically pummel almost any enemy in assault. Almost. New storm shield termies are still annoying.

Lately I've been using a Tzeentch sorceress of doom (disc, warptime, wind) with her and the raptor champ both sporting meltabombs just in case. For this setup I ditch the IoK for Chaos Glory instead. Sorcerers aren't fearless, and it's the only icon that helps joined ICs. Plus it's cheaper, and with my sorceress around they still maul whatever gets in thier way.

The squad makes excellent troop-killers, which is rather vital in 5th. Pretty good at stopping enemy assault units in thier tracks, too.

Also, I converted my own raptors because I just didn't like the normal ones. I used some daemon wings from reaper minis to replace normal CSM's backpacks and voila: Raptors! The upshot with 5th edition is that they're low enough to hide behind a rhino.

[Karmoon]

I converted mine from loyalist ones. I prefer plastic minis to carry about, and I really like the loyalist turbines. So I chaosed them up a bit.

Very happy with them I am. Yes. HMmm

[Psyan]

Since I always take a flying HQ, I like to use my Raptors as an escort. I usually take 8 with Meltas and Lightning Claws, but sometimes I sub in a Power Fist. If I'm trying to keep them cheap, I go with Icon of Chaos Undivided, if I know I'm facing MEQs, I like Slaanesh.. and if I just want maximum carnage, I go with Khorne.

Also, when I have the points available, I like a second squad of Raptors with Flamers.

[hotspike18]

I know I've mentioned things like this before since the release of our most recent codex, but wanted to ask again, and see if public opinion has changed - do you guys still think Raptors are a viable choice compared to a Rhino full of CSM? Admittedly, my typical opponent targets Raptors fairly aggressivley, but even so - I like the protection a Rhino provides, even if it tends to end up as extra kill points for the enemy. Just wanted to see what you all thought.

[Thyr]

To answer your question Hotspike, I personnaly think that the raptors, when used with regular squads in Rhino's, are still quite good at what they do and they are still faster than a squad in a Rhino. In fact they are our best option for flanking moves and for getting those tanks that stay hidden in our opponent deployment zone.

The main advantage of the Raptors is to move 12" and then still being able to charge their full 6", giving them an effective range of 18".

When you load up your troops in a Rhino and move up to 12", if you unload them, you will only be able to shoot at your target and since that target will most likely be in the 12" range you need to be to rapid fire those Bolters, you will have to face a charge the following turn. If they stay well protected in your Rhino after moving their full 12", with the smoke popped on the Rhino, you will lose a lot of fire power...

So technically, to really use the Rhino to its best you need to move 12", pop the smokes, disembark your troops the next turn, move you 6", fire your Bolt Pistols, then charge for another 6". It means that in 2 turn you fired once with your bolt pistols and moved a total of 24" (in the best case scenario).

With the Raptors you get to move your first 12" in the first turn, behind cover preferably and if anything is in the 12" range you can fire at it with your Bolters (even if usually that's something you don't want to happen because you will be eligible for a charge on your opponents turn). Then you can travel another 12" on the second turn, placing yourself 24" away and problably within range of something to shoot at, like an armoured vehicule, especially if you have 2 Meltaguns in your squad, or an infantry squad if you have flamers. You can unload your shot of Bolt Pistol and then charge for another 6".

Now, most table I'm playing on is 48" deep and we deploy in a 12" zone, meaning that I have to cross 24" of terrain before being in my opponent deployment zone. With a Rhino fully loaded, if I get a charge, I can make it in 2 turns, if the charge is denied then it will be in 3 turns and in those turns I will get to fire only once. A squad of Raptors will cover this distance in 2 turns and will be able to charge inside my opponent deployment zone, meaning a succesful flanking move and a great disruption move to cover the advance of my other squads who should get there on turn 3.

On a side note, Rhino's are a lot more survivable with the new rules, but not that survivable... they still blow up rather frequently. So in comparison, even if the Raptors are not protected by steel walls, they have some good chances to be able to do their job if they make use of covers adequatly.

I believe both squads complete each others quite well. I like to field a Deamon Prince with wings accompanied by a squad of 8 Raptors and 2 Rhino's full of CSM, that way, if one of the 3 gets shot down, what's left of the 2 other is able to do their job. The Rhino's will take care of the opponent front liners and the DP/Raptors combo will take care of everything left in the opponent deployment zone.