Possessed and Demons

[ExpansionRod]

Took a look at the codex. I kept reading on about how Possessed are terrible in most if not all forms and how the demons are worthless now in Chaos armies. But, being a newish player still (about 2 months so far) and playing against the same 5 guys (RL friends and such), I don't see why Possessed are called so bad. Not that I have any, since I took the advice of the forums.

Can anyone tell me why the Possessed and Greater/Lesser Demons called horrible?

[Riptor]

Possessed, the reaosning is the expense. You are paying nearly twice the cost of a marine, for a random benefit. Sure, the 5+ invunerable and the +1 Strength are nice, but then you can achieve the same effect with Fabius Bile and the Icon of Tzeentch, for fewer points.
The random abilities are not great, as they rane from movement benefits to close combat benefits to survival benefits. If they were ALL CC benefits (With, say, 1 being all armed with extra CCWs, going up in weapons to 6 being lightning claws, or something like that) then they may be useful, but as it is you have to decide between buying them a rhino, then risking getting fleet, or not buying them it, and if you don't get fleet they have to foot slog. For XX points a model, I would like some degree of certainty.

Lesser daemons, people feel that for 2 points more, you may aswell take more marines. I use Lesser Daemons in squads of 5, just to add bodies when I find I have spare points in a list. But even then, i'm often sorely tempted to add 10 more points and take another obliterator.

Greater Daemons, now, I think the reaosning here is we are already paying out many points for our HQs, which in most cases are sub par. Why would we want to spend XXX points to get a large daemon, that will have to sacrifise one of our champions to be summoned, and then will likely be shot to pieces the turn it comes in. I;d rather put those points towards a Daemon Prince.

In all, these units are usually outclassed by other units in the codex. Greater and Lesser daemons CAN be useful, but possessed are just... so terrible.

[aeneas]

To me the biggest reason to not take possessed is that for 4 points more you could take a terminator who

has a better save
gets a gun
always has a power weapon

the only way possessed are better is they have a higher strength (unless the terminator buys a powerfist)
and might get feel no pain or fleet

if you are going to use an elite slot, possessed are the last choice

[Dream Thief]

A big problem seems to be deployment of posessed as well. Seeing as you only roll for the upgrade after deployment, you never know quite what the unit's stringth is going to be when figuring out where to put it, so You could easily find yourself feeling they would be much more useful at the other end of the battlefield.

~ Lowell

[Xardian]

Daemons have thier uses. Lessers can help bolster a combat whever you need it, claim an objective for dirt cheap, or just soak some fire. Thier usefulness depends mostly on the list they are taken in, but they can be handy. Greaters are cheaper then Princes since you've probably got a cheap champ for it to pop out of, and it's a mean critter. Works best in lists with lots of mech and/or multiple princes already, in my experience.

Possessed... well, I wrote my opinion in full over ->here<-

But in short, they're only good at close combat against infantry, and 5 out of 6 times, a squad of basic chaos marines will do better in close combat for the same point cost, while also having shooting, anti-MC, being scoring, yadda yadda...

So yeah, possessed aren't actually completely garbage, as in they can kill stuff, but they're outshone in thier area of expertise by Joe Trooper. And that's just kinda... pathetic.

Awesome models though, worth buying a box just for the bits.

[Intrepid]

I think most people's problem with Possessed is their having a random ability. Few players are willing to pay that many points per model without a gaurantee of power weapons or rending. I think that attitude is extreme--fearlessness, for example, is worth quite a bit to me--but I am in the small minority on this. This topic has come up before, so if you want to try out Possessed you can search the forum a few months back or PM me for advice. Maybe I should write a tactica for the interested.

Greater Daemons are effective, although being a (former) Night Lord I can't say that from personal experience. That reminds me, I was expecting to see a lot of 3-Monstrous-Creature lists when the new Codex came out and that hasn't happened. Maybe the GD not having wings is a major put-off, or maybe most players think two Monstrous Creatures is enough. Not really sure.

Lesser daemons look like good cannon fodder except for their cost. Careful application of the summoning rules will make them very useful; otherwise, you might as well bring another CSM squad.

[Xardian]

I'd be interested in seeing a possessed tactica. I can't find any way to make them competitive, so I'm really open to ideas on the subject. I love the models, but everything I can think of for them to do, I can think of a troop slot unit that does it as good or better for fewer points. A fresh perspective might help

[slacker]

I think possessed can be useful, the trick is only to get them a rhino. Deploy them and account for a possible scout move since you roll for ability afterward. An extra 12" move can be really useful for getting into position early on. You could also choose to keep them in reserve, deploying them according to ability later on (possibly outflanking). I don't really think any roll result is too bad, fleet extends your assault range from the transport if nothing else. Rhino is hardly a waste since the advantage of fleet on these guys is just getting into close combat one turn faster. You just have to choose the right target with them. Got furious charge, or rending, get his hardest assault troops or a tank. Fleet or scout? Go for some softer troops a bit farther away. Usually there are alternatives. An eight man possessed squad costs about the same as a standard equipped ten man marine squad, not that terrible.

/slacker

[Riptor]

An eight man possessed squad costs about the same as a standard equipped ten man marine squad, not that terrible.

/slacker

True, but my problem is that they lose the powerfist, two special weapons (Thus losing their AT ability if your troops would have meltas) AND their scoring unit status. Not only this, but you also get only 8 posessed for the 10 marines. I guess the question is, are you willing to swap all those for +1S, a 5+ invun and a roll on that table?

[Skarsgard]

1. I think possessed are fairly crap. Sub-par and in need of a boost. They are in line with the current "Chaos=random" philosophy, which I don't particularly agree with.

2. Lesser damons are great. They excel in several departments and have an invulnerable save. Against some armies that is great. Would you rather have 8 LD is combat with banshees or 8 marines??? I know which one I would pcik.

3. Great Daemons are expensive, having to sacrifice a champion brings their cost to above that of a daemon prince (unless you go expensive) and I think the DP is a better option.