Fluff Masters Clan

[Thorne]

I Thorne would like to apply for a test please. If someone could PM me with the test that would be awsome, thank you a lot.

[Xerxes]

Sure. I'll get tests to you and Adrian by tonight. Sorry I've been taking so long about it.

[ze_poodle]

This guy Adahn on the Army Fluff forum is consistently (Love and Evil) pushing (Chaos Invasion) his idea (Chaos Space Marines and heroism) of a heroic Chaos Space Marine getting jiggy with a generic attractive female and it's annoying me. It annoys me that he wants Chaos to be heroic, it annoys me that he wants his Lord to be handsome and mutation-free, and it annoys me that he wants him to have a sex slave whom he eventually falls in love and runs away with.

Plus he called me a conservative. He did it politely, but I'm still annoyed.

Comments?

[numberofthebeastxxx]

After reading it, I share your annoyance ZE. But as you, mantis, and Xerxes have already pointed out all the things wrong with the idea, I see no point in re-stating what you guys have already said. At least they moved away from the whole eldar/chaos marine thing... :wacko:

[LordLink]

Well I guess we'll never agree Ze_Poodle. Some people like fluff to fit in with what GW have written so far and some people think of fluff as a means to write a story and just say the galaxy is a big place.

But a non-daemonic/bloodthirsty isn't really that unlikely. I don't see much of a problem with it.

[darkreever]

I don't see a problem with that either; theres always a different perspective or take on how something is (anyone who has read Let The Galaxy Burn will be able to remember that Kharn the Betrayer did not see himself as a ruthless bloodthirsty butcher.)

Heroic chaos marines that are not like the soul drinkers or similar groups of marines; sure why not, just make sure to twist perspective for it. Whats heroic for a chaos marine may be downright diabolical to emperor loyal soldiers or anyone else.

Love slave+chaos lord falling in love? Now thats just crazy and to hard to believe; why would someone who has already forsaken so much to get towhere they are throw it away just for love?

I can understand mutation free and maybe even handsome, hey not every chaos marine is a mutated freak; I can picture a heroic chaos marine, because it can be done through twisted perspective. Throwing everything away for love is real out of whack for a chaos marine though.

[ze_poodle]

I am not at odds with this man's work because it offends me. I am not opposed to it because it breaks some phantom law that states that what Gav Thorpe writes cannot be denied. I do not dislike this man's...contributions because he wants to be original, or because he desires some level of unconventionality.

I am opposed to it because every inch of it is complete and utter crap.

It is simply bad.

His Chaos Space Marine "hero" is not heroic in the right sense. The Codex itself, the mainstay of fluff, states that Chaos are one of the most morally flexible factions next to the Inquisition, and that portraying them as tortured anti-heroes is not only acceptable, but encouraged as original and fresh. But this man's character is not that hero. This man's character has "camaraderry." He "looks out for his fellows." He "feels a universal connection to the human race." He possesses the finest qualities of mercy and can sense emotions as subtle and discerning as love without confusion or hesitation. He also lacks spelling ability, as evinced above.

In short, Adahn's Chaos Space Marine is not, in fact, a Chaos Space Marine. I am hesitant to call it a man at all. It is a poorly-conceived Hollywood action hero whom Adahn desires to be flashy and new, but admits he based most of it on Brad Pitt's portrayal of Achilles in Troy. He wants it to be a proud anti-hero without understanding what a Homeric hero really is. He skims scant knowledge from the top of vast, deep sources, hesitating to truly study the background he glimpses.

It's not the rules he's breaking or the patronising nicety he shows in the face of direct and righteous criticism. It is that he has castrated Chaos. He wants to give it a vasectomy. He wishes for it to be good and blokey rather than brutal and cruel. And I merely desire to say this:

Zso Sahaal is a heroic Chaos Marine. Sarpedon is a heroic Chaos Marine. Magnus is a heroic Chaos Marine. The picture this man paints, of a handsome, uncorrupted warrior leader who can find the mercy to spare a female captive for reason he can name and, indeed, then sex her up royally after valiantly saving her from molestation at the hands of his own soldiers - is not a Chaos Marine. He is, ladies and gentleman, a pansy, and the one thing the vast and innumerable hordes of Chaos do not consist of is pansies.

He's working backwards. He said to himself "I wonder if a Chaos Lord could get it on with an Eldar slave?" and immediately constructed a character, plot, army and female lead based solely around the eventual objective of getting his virtual protegé to mate.

And, of course, the protagonist of whatever half-baked Mills & Boon novel he's concocting must be attractive, and so must his girlfriend. They must be perfect and uncorrupted, free of confusion or guilt. Because anything else would be - and I quote him on this - "ugly."

Warhammer is not pretty.

[LordLink]

lol so the biggest problem you have with it is that hes a hollywood cliche. Ah well, nothing wrong with cliches.

And why aren't you in the Anzac Clan Ze_Poodle?

And no Adahn doesn't seem to be writing this simply because he wants his chaos lord to have sex. I got a different impression from his thread.

[ze_poodle]

Well, the annoyance is his persistence in pushing the idea. And that, for some reason, you seem to support him. That mystifies and confuses me.

And that he called me conservative. I could spit. It's patronising.

[darkreever]

Not sure about LL's support, but I know that my own only lies in that you can have a chaos marine that is heroic or not a bloodthirsty moster (albet he is still a monster...)

That is you can have a heroic chaos marine in the sense that you are looking from their own point of view, or at least someone else's point of view, on what heroic is. Zso Sahaal is a fair example of that, willing to do what ever was neccesary to regain his symbol of leadership to the Night Lords.

I'm sorry Ze, I just went through the enitre chaos marine hero thread in the fluff section and couldn't find Adahn mentioning a chaos lord falling for an eldar slave. I think I might have missed something a little while back..