Fluff Masters Clan

[Grephaun]

Greph, I belive you are wrong in this matter.
The Necrons have ways to make their warriors 'phase out' of existance and reapear on other places (see: Wraiths). The C'tan Phase Swords utilise this technology to 'phase out' from our plane and matrialise again inside the victims armour, bypassing all protection and more than often killing the target.

No, I am actually right, sorry. If you look in the Daemonhunter Codex, there’s a short story on a Callidus Assassin attacking the Deceiver with a C’tan Phase Sword – at the touch of the C’tan the Phase Sword turns into a liquid metal form which twists and weaves like living mercury at the command of the C’tan and is then absorbed by the Deceiver’s own Living Metal body, a clear indication that the sword too must be made of Living Metal.

Also, Cypher lost his C’tan Phase Knife to the Nightbringer in much the same fashion, by stabbing the C’tan with his blade and have it dissolved and absorbed by the C’tan’s body.

Furthermore, in the Black Library novel ‘Nightbringer’ by Graham McNeill there is a tribe with so-called ‘magic’ swords and knives which never need sharpening and can cut through anything, very much like a C’tan Phase Sword, and these weapons are forged from Living Metal mined from a dormant Monolith, so it’s clearly possible to create weapons from Living Metal.

As for the whole ‘phasing’ aspect, the story in the Daemonhunter Codex also makes indicates that the blade actually physically penetrates all protections; it is sliced or stabbed or thrust into the opponent’s body, not phased, and it destroys whatever it passes through, be it armour, clothing, or flesh, which a phasing Necron does not.

I also checked with Wikipedia and Lexicanum, and they agree with me. I’d like a reference to your source of information on the C’tan Phase Weapons, though, if you have any, in case the official fluff is contradicting itself again and I just haven’t noticed. :hmm:

Would it be a fluff "no-no" if a Space Marine Chapter were to recruit from Cadia?

I find it rather unlikely that a Space Marine Chapter should recruit from Cadia; usually, what makes a good soldier does not make a good Space Marine, which is why most Marine Chapters recruit primitive tribal people from Death Worlds or Hive Slums – however, there are exceptions, such as the Ultramarines recruiting from their own civilised worlds, or the Blood Ravens picking up a young Imperial Guardsman who managed to impress them with his abilities.

However, Cadia in particular seems a bad choice to me; the only reason for a Marine Chapter to be near Cadia is to guard the Cadian Gate or actively fight Chaos incursions into Imperial space – not conditions that allow for the time and effort it takes to create a new member of the Chapter through implantation, indoctrination, and training. Most Marine Chapters usually pick up new recruits between battles, not during – they frequently even lie low for a while when adding to their numbers, then return to active duty when the new Marines are ready.




Also, on an entirely different note, I finished 'Galaxy in Flames' yesterday, and dare I say it's excellent? Definitely a must-read, absolutely delicious! Mmm. More than once I was seen punching the air and yelling 'Ha! Take that, you dirty traitor!' - much to the bemusement of my family, which apparently fails to comprehend that my overwhelming need for 40k literature actually makes me bring books to family gatherings and sneak a few pages under the pretence of going outside for a cigarette (I don't actually smoke, but they wouldn't understand why it is absolutely imperative that I find out how the final duel between Loken and Abaddon ends right now, hence the need for subterfuge.) :shifty: Addict, who, me? :ninja:

Anyway, in spite of knowing the eventual outcome of the storyline the book still managed to surprise me, and characters I've previously disregarded out of hand as inconsequential for the story suddenly turned out to be rather more heroic than I had imagined. Only one small thing confused me near the end, when the book apparently diverged from the fluff set by the Sabertooth books (dare I hope this is true?) - however, it could just be a trick from the author(s) making for a later shocking revelation, so I'm not quite yet getting my hopes up.

Oh, I can't wait for 'Flight of the Eisenstein'! :w00t:

~Grephaun.

[numberofthebeastxxx]

The lady Grephaun is correct. Since the assassins first came out back in 3rd (or was it second?) edition, the sword had been made out of the living metal of the C'Tan. The Imperials found an STC machine that can mold the living metal. Although it can only make crude things like knives and other small objects. It gives us a little insight on how technologically advanced the human race was in the golden age.

Also, the lady and Xerxes are also correct. Space Marines do not for the most part ever recruit from technologically advanced planets such as Cadia, regardless of the military prowess of its population.

Space Marines don't need to recruit soldiers. They recruit warriors. They recruit survivors. They mold them into soldiers. Soldiers of the Emperor.

More often than not space marines recruit from feral and backwater planets. Places with very harsh climates or societies. They respect and require raw courage and determination. Hardiness and strength of the mind as well as the body. Most new recruits are primitive but only in the sense that they are not as advanced as other cultures. Think of them as clay that are molded into the "perfect" war machine. They are built for war. They just need to have the potential to be molded thus.

[LordLink]

yeah look at why the Space Wolves recruited Ragner. He was only a boy and he was the lone survivor of a vicious attack on his village and then survived the incredibly harsh wilderness of Fenris. That's why he was recruited nothing to do with military talent.

Also Cadians tend to have a higher proportion of psykers due to their proximity to the Eye of Terror. (and therefore taint/corruption). It is highly unlikely a marine chapter would recruit from them as that gives them a higher risk of a tainted recruit.

So what if its made of living metal? the monolith phases out just fine why can't the phase sword?

[Grephaun]

So what if its made of living metal? the monolith phases out just fine why can't the phase sword?

I think you’re confusing Phasing Out and Phase Shifting, LordLink. It’s true that all Necron models can Phase Out, at the least by the end of a battle if they lose, but Phasing Out is merely a fancy method of teleportation, and even Necron teleportation devices are too big and cumbersome to fit inside a small weapon.

I believe that you’re thinking of Phase Shifting, which is the ability to pass straight through other matter as if it wasn't there, and only a few Necron models have that ability; the Necron Lord gains the ability with a Phase Shifter device, which indicates that the ability to Phase Shift is therefore not an innate aspect of the Necrons’ Living Metal itself but rather a technology entirely apart from it which requires additional technology – and there’s no reason to assume that the Imperium have also gained the Phase Shifting technology when they stumbled over Living Metal and learned how to use it.

~Grephaun.

[Da Mighty Camel]

Ah, Ok Greph. I must be thinking of an older source of the C'tan Phase Sword (most likely Rouge Trader) where the blade phased out. Way cooler than some 'can penetrate everything!'-metal. ^_^

Oh, found this on Wiki. Can be outdated though (and we all know not to trust Wiki!)

C'tan Phase Blades

C'tan Phase blades are used exclusively by the agents of the Callidius Temple. Recent background material suggests that there is only one single Phase Blade in possession by the Callidus Temple, as only one has ever been recovered by the Adeptus Mechanicus (through a Deathwatch Kill-Team) and the technology is impossible to duplicate. They use an alien form of technology that allows them to 'materialize' inside their target, allowing nothing for armour or force fields to stop. They are made of Necrodermis (Necron 'living metal'), and it is said that they are the creations of the C'tan. They are not truly in reality until they sense their target, until that point they exist in a 'grey zone', between the Warp and the material universe. When they sense their targets, they become wholly in the material universe, allowing them to slip through any armour. They also utilize a form of 'powering' that is built directly into the blade. Even now, the Adeptus Mechanicus cannot explain exactly how it works.

[LordLink]

Well regardless of how old it is its my story and my assassin is holding one of those things . Thanks Mighty Camel.

The thing about that is Necrodermis. Is that living metal? I always thought it was jst a ctans intestine equvialent or something. I know it explodes when a ctan dies.

[nexus-star]

That is when you "kill" and C´tan, actualy you breach his Necrodermis shell and the masive energy´s inside escape and rip everything within 50meter appart.

[Grephaun]

@ Da Mighty Camel:

I’m afraid that is indeed an outdated source of information; for one, the C’tan Phase Blades are not used only by the Callidus Temple, apparently Cypher has had one as well, not to mention those blades in ‘Nightbringer’. Secondly, the Callidus Temple certainly has more than one blade, since all their Assassins carry one, and the Deceiver reclaimed one blade without this influencing the Assassins’ use of the blades, indicating that there must be more than one.

Also, no Necron or C’tan technology can ever exist ‘between the Warp and the material universe’ – the C’tan are exclusively tied to our dimension and abhor the warp; they would never create technology that had anything to do with the warp, not to mention that their own Great Work would prevent such devices from working!

No, I believe that the whole ‘phase’ aspect of a phase blade does not refer to some unexplained ability to ‘phase’ in and out of the material realm – rather, I think it just might refer to the unique ability of Living Metal to change its ‘phase’ or state of matter without altering its thermodynamic properties; it apparently goes from solid to liquid form without any apparent change in temperature, pressure, or volume, something which is normally impossible according to the laws of physics; the C’tan are unique in the 40k universe exactly because they largely ignore the laws of physics, and hence it would make sense for them to create such a material for their own use.

This ability to change the phase of solid matter would also make possible the Living Metal's shape memory properties; whenever the blade would be blunted or damaged, it'll flow back into shape and hence always keep its edge.

I must admit I can’t remember my Rogue Trader well enough to remember any references to C’tan Phase Blades that might be found in it, but I’ll check up on it when I return home. However, I’m pretty sure that practically everything mentioned in Rogue Trader is outdated by now.

~Greph.

[Da Mighty Camel]

Yeah I suspected that it was outdated. What if the Callidus Temple only has one Phase Blade and several Phase Swords then? But I believe that this is incorrect nowdays.

[Helbrecht]

Yeah I suspected that it was outdated. What if the Callidus Temple only has one Phase Blade and several Phase Swords then? But I believe that this is incorrect nowdays.

Are not blades part of swords? Perhaps it is Knifes and swords, in any case both have the same abilities and cannot hurt a C'Tan's necrodermis shell. If the contain had his necrodermis removed and you could find where he was regeneratingthen I do not know if you could hurt him or not, although I suspect not as he is an entity of energy.