Ist Vet With Thunder Hammer

[Pooky]

I've had some trouble with the GK's being In4, (with the exception of the GK GM who is a whooping 145 points), when an enemy character comes along at In5 and cuts my GK's in half before they can attack back.

The idea I have is to have a squad of IST in a Rhino with a Vet with a T Hammer and a Tele Homer. The plan would be to drive up and hit the enemy with the T Hammer to make them In1. The GK Termies would then show up thanks to the Tele homer and then go before the enemy hopefully cutting them into pieces!

[mEGALOMANIAC]

a) That depends on a reserve roll coming up at exactly the right moment, which never happens.

b) GKT (or any other Deepstriking model) can't be teleported directly into CC - they have a minimum range of 1" from their base to an enemy's base.

c) When a unit is Deepstruck, they can't move or assault that turn. So the GKT wouldn't be able to close that 1" (or more) gap to help out the IST.

d) The IST would have to SURVIVE to hit the model in question - for multiple turns, since you have to wait for the reserve roll to come up, and then wait another turn to move them into combat. Any unit that can pop a GM & retinue can just as easily pop an IST squad.

[Pooky]

Originally posted by mEGALOMANIAC+Feb 11 2005, 14:53--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mEGALOMANIAC @ Feb 11 2005, 14:53)</div><div class='quotemain'>a) That depends on a reserve roll coming up at exactly the right moment, which never happens.

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I thought that if there homer you didn't need to roll for reserves OR scatter... In other words you literally "point and click" and the T's arrive.

Originally posted by mEGALOMANIAC@Feb 11 2005, 14:53
b) GKT (or any other Deepstriking model) can't be teleported directly into CC - they have a minimum range of 1" from their base to an enemy's base.

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I know. I thought that the IST could hold their own for a turn or two while the GK's DS waited a turn then assaulted.

Originally posted by mEGALOMANIAC@Feb 11 2005, 14:53
c) When a unit is Deepstruck, they can't move or assault that turn. So the GKT wouldn't be able to close that 1" (or more) gap to help out the IST.

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I imagined that on the turn that they arrive would be the same turn that the IST assaulted. It would be like this, the IST move up and call down the GK's. The GK's then shoot the Character and then the IST assault. After one turn, and the enemy at In1, then the GK's assault. As you pointed out before, this would assume perfect timing from the GK's.

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d) The IST would have to SURVIVE to hit the model in question - for multiple turns, since you have to wait for the reserve roll to come up, and then wait another turn to move them into combat. Any unit that can pop a GM & retinue can just as easily pop an IST squad.

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There is 10 of them there. A character can only kill 5 at a time, tops. And again I thought that the GK's wouldn't take too long to get there.

[mEGALOMANIAC]

I thought that if there homer you didn't need to roll for reserves OR scatter... In other words you literally "point and click" and the T's arrive.

Noooo. A Teleport Homer only negates the scatter role. You still have to wait for reserves to come up. The only way to speed this up is to use plenty of IG vehicles with Improved Comms, which give you a reroll on reserves.

I imagined that on the turn that they arrive would be the same turn that the IST assaulted. It would be like this, the IST move up and call down the GK's. The GK's then shoot the Character and then the IST assault. After one turn, and the enemy at In1, then the GK's assault. As you pointed out before, this would assume perfect timing from the GK's.

You Deepstrike at the absolute beginning of the turn, before anything else. So you'd have to DS, then assault with the nearby IST, then let the GK join in the next turn.

There is 10 of them there. A character can only kill 5 at a time, tops. And again I thought that the GK's wouldn't take too long to get there.

I say again - anything that can take on a unit of GKT with a Hero can take out 10 IST like you wouldn't believe. T3 and a 4+ save don't exactly prolong a unit's life in assault. The main thing here is that you'd have to fight TWO assault MINIMUM before the GK joined it:

Your turn: GK DS, IST move in for the kill, hopefully hitting & stunning the character in the unit. Take 3-4 casualties. Take moral check, since they're very unlikely to win against a dedicated assault unit. Remember, IST aren't fearless.
Enemy's turn: Whatever else he does, which might include shooting your GK, you still have to fight another round of combat in your enemy's turn. Another 2-3 IST casualties, best case scenario. If you hit the enemy with the TH in the first round, the stun effect happens here, NOT next turn. So you have to hope to hit the character AGAIN this turn.
Your next turn: Now, assuming that the IST Vet survived two combat rounds in B2B with this uber-killer that you fear so much and still managed to hit and stun him in the enemy's turn, and the IST squad that very likely took 50% or more casualties didn't flee, and the GK squad next to you managed to not get shot up or assaulted during the enemy's turn, you can move them in and complete your plan.

The problem is that IST are too fragile for the task you're assigning them, and you're counting on the enemy to have no tricks up his sleeve and not even support this other unit in CC. Way too much coordination involved for it as well, what with bringing the GK down in a timely manner before the IST get themselves owned.

[DBclay]

why not just take a Callidus Temple Assassin. u can place it next to the charator assolt, probable kill it and if not jump out of combat and reassolt

[funnymouth]

not a bad suggestion for killing a i5 hero. because she strikes simultaniously though, she will die, so make sure shes worth it. if the enemy has a retinue that strikes slower have her pick on them and avoid combad with the character.this will keep her alive, killmore badies and tie up his uber hq.

[Fonus]

A IST Vet with Hammer is a cheap hidden powerfist and a great way of having another squad that have some power in CC, great against Dreadnought, normal SM (tactical), Devastators, Wraithlords and .. and.. eh you know what I mean .

However - dont expect them to survive against any sort of CC specialized troop of any kind.

[Pooky]

Originally posted by mEGALOMANIAC@Feb 11 2005, 23:33
The problem is that IST are too fragile for the task you're assigning them, and you're counting on the enemy to have no tricks up his sleeve and not even support this other unit in CC. Way too much coordination involved for it as well, what with bringing the GK down in a timely manner before the IST get themselves owned.

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In that case, any ideas on how to make them better? Anyone?

[Fonus]

Max the squad size and use your transport to avoid CC-dedicated troops.

[chickenpowder]

Won't work - he wants to get those IST *into* CC.
How about - just use IST for other roles? They aren't built for CC...their stats are exactly the same as an ordinary IG guy (cept their 4+ Sv) and they cost DOUBLE the points! They're supposed to be outfited fot shooting, u know.