New Codex Wishlist for GK

[arishnakoger]

(1) Knights on bikes. knights need their steeds

(2) Middleman between GM and BC. the point/ability gap is too wide.

(3) Better =][=. They are lame. they need to be better.

(4) Vet skills. it doesn't make sense that a grizzled marine has more skills than the best fighters in the galaxy.

(5) Better IST's. The ig variant is better for the same cost, we deserve the same.

(6) Fleet for Knights. it would cover the mobility gap that knights have, but at the cost of a round of shooting. balanced if you ask me. The choice between an extra d6 of movement and 20 SB shots would be a tough decision, but would provide for more tactical flexibility.

(7) better psychic powers/powers on justicars. most of our psychic powers are lame, no way around it. would also provide for more flexibility within regular PAGK squads.

( better ranged AT options. our dreads are comparatively inefficient to other armies options. this needs to be balanced.

(9) better deepstriking/reserves. deepstriking is supposed to be the specialty of the GK's. however they are outclassed by smurfs in their little flying tin cans. this needs to be changed.

(1 protection from instant death.
those are in no particular order of preference. just some stuff i would like to see.

[INQ]

-something better than a BC but not as great as a GM. BCs are ridiculously lame... it just kind of feels stupid to have a BC up against pretty much any SM HQ... even though GK are supposed to be THE cream of the crop, their leader is just a run of the mill GK terminator? o wait, an extra attack. whoopdy frickin doo. 16 points for +1 A, yay, go go ultimate HQ of pr4wnage.

-moar anti armor. i'm tired of relying almost entirely on TLLC/MC dreads if i don't want to field allies. let us have our own force for god's sake.

-Inq versatility. As it is, I can give him a psycannon or i can... um...

-StormTroopers more like regular ones with deep striking and all, and some spiffy new options would be nice too. i mean for crying out loud, IG get infiltration, deep striking, MELTA BOMBS? and their veteran only costs +6 points? what?

maybe this one's asking too much but... +1 to I for GKs?

[Loranis]

Most of you covered the usual culprits so theres only 2 that i can think of.

6 WS for GK GM's, maybee its just me but it annoys me that my regular troopers and my super duper lord have the same WS, would make the GK GM better then other space marine captains wich he should be.

And my all time OMFG pet peeve for the current codex, make the retinue for inquisitor lords 0-12 instead of 3-12, as much as they suck in CC i would still use them if i could put them with a unit of storm troopers or GK without having to have a retinue. That or make them able to join units if they have a retinue of 3 models or less.

[Fuhrik]

I think simply allowing PAGK's access to chimeras and rhinos would make me considerably happier.

There needs to be SOMETHING in the way of a heavy weapons option, but it's tricky because it seems like adding more options might strip some of the GK's independence away...so I think if there was anything added it would have to be unique. The purgation squad for example are a very unique HW choice because they are mobile, so adding LC's and ML's would take that away...maybe something with a profile like S9, 24", Assault 1 would keep some originality and mobility without being overpowered...or maybe simply adding meltaguns as an upgrade option to purgation squad and allowing basic transport access would alleviate this as well. Cost of purgation squad is also too great, as they basically void their own access to "true grit" and the nemesis weapon, but that goes for all GK upgrades really.

Fast attack is a joke....but again, I would probably want to see something unique here...maybe a rough riders/scout/GK hybrid type unit, but that also might just be too fantasyish.Bikes could be cool...they'd probably have to be something close to 50pts though I would think though...maybe with a +2 S upgrade when charging to really focus on the "lance" idea. plus that would be a cool, unique alternative to having heavy weapons....cavalry! Even here though, just making transports available solves serious problems here.

I dunno. main thing is transport options for me besides the LR and LRC, and maintaining unique-ness.


That being said, I don't think the codex needs that many changes though really...our basic troopers beat the pants off of everybody else (obviously at a large point difference too, but hey, they're worth it IMO), and 2 S6 attacks is pretty dang impressive...not to mention all having storm bolters. I think if you want a bunch of marine stuff, play marines (that's not a slam, my more-developed army is DA). If you want to play GK, play GK. We have a limited codex, but it makes us think of new answers, and that's not something I would immediately "wish" away.

[Chow]

1. Init 5/6 for Gk hero. Most close combat tooled unit have I5 or about (SM with furious charge, Genestealer, All Elder/Darkelder CC units, Ork with WARRR, Rough Riders, etc.). If that is too much at least give us Furious charge for upgrade.

2. Gk dont have the attacks to really obliterate the enemy in close combat (2 attack always) unless they are soften before. Rending for normal power armour GK nemnsis force weapon or 3 attack would be very nice.

3. Upgrade Rite of exorcism that it affact normal Chaos marine, other wise GK actually have no advantage against Chaos but 1 daemon prince model.... While that they design to have advantage to fight against Chaos

4. Improve Purgation Squad, right now they are overpriced when compare with similar Havoc squard/devasator squard... Allow to carry lascannon, cheaper heavy weapons and tank hunt option would be very nice. for 25 point a marine that stand and shoot, no more strombolter and str 6, some advantage such as these arent ask for too much.

5. More Anti-tank options, Right now beside Hellfire dread, unless you count Land raider transport, there are no Anti-armour unit/weapon in pure daemonhunter army at all, like some suggest earlier, Either GK bikers with melta/landspeeder/ Gk Predator would be nice to have.

6. Allow GK carry plasma/some assult weapon with more than ap4. I found that GK actually have less advantage compare with Marine when facing chaos for there are no weapon that can penetrade CSM power armour to soften up their number, hence when come in to close combat, the lack of attacks and the amount of attacks they have really pain me.

7. Aegis is disappointing. All the nastiest Psychic powers are buffs directed at a players own troops (like fortune) or are unaffected by this rule (Thousand Sons). I rather they give us free psychic hood, For that they can nullify enemy buffs too.

8. GK Dread allow to access drop pod

9. Adamantium Mantle plz, I am sick of my GK hero got Instant kill by powerfist : (

10. Scared Incense for Justicar and frag grenades for GK hero!

[number6]

Ah, the wishlist! So many wishes, so little time.

* More wargear and unit options for Radical armies. The only truly identifying feature of radical armies on the tabletop is the presence of daemonhosts. Whoopee. There should be some chaos wargear and variant psyker powers. There should be fast attack choices and heavy support options beyond a single orbital strike.

* There should be more fast attack choices, period. It seems impossible that, considering how fast daemons are and can be, the GKs never thought to mount on jet bikes (in old editions of the game, there used to be imperial jet bikes; why couldn't GKs still have them?). Or never thought to create assault packs. Hit-and-run with True Grit and NFWs would surely be something they'd want to use! Where are they? (Of course, they'd be expensive. So what! The option should be there. They're logical and rational, especially when they only have to look at their Astartes brethren.) Sure, it's nice to be able to deep strike GKs, but honestly, GKs should always be able to deep strike, even if taken as Troops. Supposedly, that's how GKs work all the time! I have never liked that, unless you take ISTs, your first two GK squads must footslog it. I like footslogging my GKs -- I usually do even for FAGKs, even -- but it shouldn't be forced that way. We should have the option of 100% deep striking our GKs. Challenging, but how cool is that! And it's fluffy!

* On the subject of deep striking, I would like to have the option available to the new Dark Angels Deathwing: the option to deep strike up to 1/2 of your deep striking troops on the 1st turn. And again, any GK squad should be able to deep strike. If we could always deeps strike, and have some of our squads deep strike on turn one, I wouldn't even want other mobility options. Not bikes, not jump packs, definitely no transports. (Transports really aren't that fluffy.)

* Insta-kill protective wargear. This army is the only Imperial army that doesn't have it. Inexcusable. Especially considering that GKs are supposed to be derived from gene-seed direct from The Emperor Himself.

* Another GK Hero option. The GM can be cost-prohibitive, and the BC has just one wound. Are there no GK Heroes that can't be somewhere in between? Two wounds, at least? Price this guy somewhere between the GM and the BC -- a Merely Good Master? -- and give him moderate abilities somewhere between those two, and it suddenly opens up a lot of possibilities for constructing GK HQs and pure GK lists. How does a BC even become a GM? There has to be a transition from really good Grey Knight to GOD OF ALL GREY KNIGHTS. Let's see that in a model.

* Bringing the GK special rules into balance. Aegis is virtually worthless, and definitely will be after the new Codex: Chaos is released this fall, because there will no longer be any "minor" psychic powers. Daemonic infestation is totally overkill; drop it. The Shrouding is pretty cool, actually, and not too bad the way it is now. The other rules are fine the way they are.

* Venerable dreadnoughts.

* More diversity for heavy support. It's either paper-thin dreads or wildly expensive land raiders. No middle ground at all. I do believe that tanks in general don't really fit with GK fluff (no predators!), but what about weapons platforms? Or real, actual heavy weapons that GKs can carry? I cannot believe the GKs never developed a weapon stronger than the psycannon to deal with daemons. You'd think they'd never heard of greater daemons before. What's wrong with lascannons and missile launchers? Or, why haven't they developed some kind of S8 weapon that ignores invulnerable saves? Is the psycannon really all the more creative they can get? The lack of heavy weapons options really doesn't make any sense. They're not just for puncturing armour, you know! And, since the new assault cannon stats, why haven't GKs abandoned psycannons for assault cannons! They're just better, period.

* I can't take full credit for this idea (the inception would have to go to a man calling himself Silent Requiem on another board), but how about a new psychic power, fluff-wise existing to kill daemons, but would have the in-game benefit of being effective against tanks? Provisionally called "The Burning". To whit:

+++
Range: 24", Strength: X/2 + 5 (max 1, AP 2, Type: Assault 1, ignores invulnerable saves (psychic test required)

This is a focused bolt of psychic energy that a Grey Knight can use to rip the strands of reality that denizens of the Warp use to anchor their existence to our realm away from their grasp. (It just so happens that, if appropriately directed, this can also be highly damaging to residents and objects of the material realm, as well.) This power can be bought for an individual GK Hero, or as a squad power for GKTs or GKs. If bought as a squad power, the GM, BC, or Justicar serves as the focus of the power; if the focus dies, the power is no longer available to the squad. When bought as a squad power, Perils of the Warp will effect the entire squad. In the Strength profile, "X" stands for the number of GK models involved in powering the bolt. Grey Knights can pool their psychic strength together through the focus of their squad leader (BC or Justicar) who who is able to focus the pooled energy when releasing the bolt, increasing its potency manyfold. Thus, a squad of 8 Grey Knights, through the Justicar, would produce a bolt with a Strength of 9 (8/2 + 5 = 9), while a GK Hero who took the power for himself would always produce a bolt with a Strength of 5 (1/2 + 5 = 5; fractions are always rounded down).
+++

Personally, I love the psycannon just the way it is. It just should be about 5-10 pts cheaper nowadays. If we could have "The Burning" -- or something similar, at least -- I also don't see the need for any new weaponry.

[Leonatus]

oh well, here goes:

I do not believe that DH need a lot of increasing their capabilities. It might be true that they are somewhat on the weak side when compared to other armies but not so much that it would justify the chages that some people wish for.


Some buffs I could see

- decrease the cost of heavy weapons for Power Armour Grey Knight. 5 pts for an Incinerator are well enough. Even if it were free I don´t believe that many people would load up on them.
Psycannons should cost around 15 points.


- ISTs should pay the same cost for wargear than the IG version. Most of the wargear is just way too expensive to be used at all. Infiltrate and Deep Strike should not be available however. They are standard choices after all. Maybe a Fast Attack IST version with these option. This should make radical =I= especially happy.

- As many have said: Venerable Dreadnoughts. The Psycannon-option should be in the Codex, too.

- Make the vehicle equipment for Demonhunters usefull or don´t include it at all. Blessed hull & co are just way too specialised to be of any use.

- A middle way Grey Knight character of course. Call him Grey Knight Master, give him 2 wounds and BS,I 5 and let him cost around 100 points.
Failing that give these stats to the Brother Captain.


More than these changes I´d like to see some clarifications regarding the inner workings of the Grey Knights:

Chaplains, Librarians, Techmarines and Apothecaries.
These guys are usually available to every chapter in one way or the other and they all are vital to a chapters survival. Maybe Grey Knights don´t have them but then I´d like to know how they get around it.

Chaplains are neccessary to care for their brothers´ mental health.
Grey Knights may be better prepared than normal Astartes warriors but then they also face worse stuff.
I have read that there should be no Chaplains because GK don´t follow the Codex but thats hardly an argument. Chaplains are used by Space Wolves and Black Templars too. Neither could follow the codex.
in-game a chaplain could be a Master with a set piece of equipment and rules.
A built-in 4+ save and a power weapon (the Crozius) as well as giving his squad counter charge should do the trick.

Librarians: Most people belive that they are just the resident psykers. However they also tend to the chapters history and intelligence as well as the hazardous artefacts.
In the Grey Knights chapter these things probably are taken care of by the Inquisition so the lack of Librarians would not be so grave. Still I´d like this at least mentioned in the Codex.
The game-version of a GK Librarian could be a Master with built in Psychic Hood and a few psychic powers.

Techmarines make sure that a chapter has equipment to use. The technical staff to maintain vehicles, armour and weapons. No chapter can be without them.
I cannot imagine a Grey Knight Techmarine. It just seems off. They could use Enginseers for that, like the Imperial Guard does.
If so, an option for some kind of Enginseer as a stand alone Elite choice as well as a member of an =I= retinue would be neat.

Apothecaries: The most vital part of any Astartes chapter. Without them the chapters dies.
How come Grey Knights don´t have any? Their implants are not quite like the normal Astartes implants but I find it hard to believe that they have no Apothecaries whatsoever.
Either way I´d like that clarified.

[cl30003000]

One thing I would like to see as well would just be more fluff. In the new DA codex the amount of fluff was well worth it even if I wasn't going to really start the army. There isn't as much history on the Grey Knights as other chapters. I'm not asking for special characters or anything, but it would be cool if they gave titanic battles that the Grey Knights have participated in. Like on Armageddon or what not.

[Phoenix Guard 1988]

like many people, I would like:
-Bike mounted Grey Knights
-Venerable Dreadnought
-Drop Pods

Also, I think that a Whirlwind variant that could fire modified vengeance missile that would have psycannon stats in pie-plate form.

[nichodemus10]

The more I read, the more I feel like people want an unstoppable army. That would be lame, why play if the game is about who selected the best codex. I think there are some good points though and they make me think of other things that are related that would be nice to see.

First I do like all GKs deepstriking, but I think the ammendment should be--all GKs deepstrike, FAGKs start rolling their reserves on turn one.

Cheaper Weapons is a good idea. 15 for psycannons (20 in purgesquads) 5 incinerators (15 in purge squad...imagine 4 deepstriking heavy flamers!)

I think the bikes could work out, but they would have to suffer the same limitations as normal bikers...1 base attack with NFW, their special power would be that on the charge it counts as a power weapon. If they had two attack each I think they would be too tough (though I guess Chaos bikers get two attacks so maybe it would be possible) maybe give them "counts as true grit" 2 attacks. I just don't want them to be able to mow though hordes of armies...we are supposed to kill hordes by shooting them.

I don't want Drop pods, it is not are way. I think normal heavy weapons are beneath us, but how about you let out stormies form heavy weapons teams? That would be the cost of the krak grenades we dont get, and the more expensive veteran.