New Codex Wishlist for GK

[Lord Lucias]

Originally Posted by Karmoon

How about a 1D6 scatter on deepstrike with a reroll?

OR.. deepstrike with a reroll (2D6) BUT can assault (not move)?

Something like this makes sense.. even if it was 2d6 with reroll and can move (but not assault).. this would show that they are trained and experienced in d/striking. Having a clear head when arriving (enough to duck into cover and get their bearings).
The thing with d/striking is that its so disorienting and so warp tainted that most SM's throw up all over the place on their first time.. and most SM's would hardly if ever d/strike. GK's on the other hand use it constantly as a form of transportation and have the mental ability and faith to protect them from the taint of the warp.

[dhs]

Originally Posted by Luke Harvey

But they are not Space Marines...

GK are not SM.? When was the last time you open your DH codex.? Does GW not mention 'super SM' in this codex.?

but their training is not in heavy weapons. What your missing is that they are not a codex astartes chapter. They aren't there for fire support.

is psycannon a heavy and assault weapon.? You can't be serious.

You truely underestimate the strength of the stormbolter. Who else gets stormbolters? Hardly any, Company Masters, Terminators and a couple of Veterans.... Yet ever GK gets one! We can move and shoot ever turn without hindrance of our weapon being only 12" in range.. On top of that we can get Psycannons and Incinerators (which could be over priced) but are with out a doubt, elite equipment.. no-one else in the universe can field them..

1- If stormbolters are awesome as you said, SM players will never use assault cannons in their terminators units, will they.?
2- It is not the quantity but the quality.

DHS... i really think you should play a SM army if your wanting all those bells and whistles...

You remind me of 2 players whose ignorant are beyond any human being comprehensive. To keep the story short, these 2 players watched me play and when i told another player how hard it was to play 'pure GK', they told me that it was easy and they told me the army list which I recognized immediately because I have been using it for years.

To prove my point, I asked them to play pure GK. First, they gave me an excuse that they didn't have any GK models. Well, i told them they could use mine and my army list if they were lazy. Indeed, they followed the bait.

They played 2 games with other players and LOST horribly. I jumped in and used my army list to play against their opponents and kicked their ass. Do you know what I said in the end.?

How can an army list produce 2 different results.?

You know what these 2 players said.? NOTHING.

[Inquisitor_Eljer]

Originally Posted by Luke Harvey

Okay, so I take its a bit much to ask anyone to read all 31pages before posting, but if you did... <snip>

I have good sir Luke, and if you have also read all of the posts you'd see that I too have posted several comments much higher in the thread string. We all have ideas and suggestions for the Daemon Hunters and for pure Grey Knights, which you seem to dislike, and that is your right. Try to keep it friendly, collaborative and fun will ya?

I think GW will respond to / address many of the 'common' complaints noted early in the thread (one way or the other), and that now we're really discussing some of the fringe topics like:

- Will GW make Radical inquisitors playable? (will there be radical unit selections for each organization slot for them to choose from?)

- Will a pure GK force be more viable (note I didn't say that they were or were not viable options today, just MORE viable than they are today)

- What would the general masses like to see in regards to Heavy Support choices for GK (if they should get revised)

- Where should the GK Dread be, Elites or Heavy Support? (yes, it could be possible to move units from one slot to another)

etc., etc., etc....

If you have nothing more to do than to criticise posts you personally don't agree with why waste your time in posting at all? These conversations are something you HAVE to read or respond to you know.

[Hasten]

Originally Posted by dhs

1- If stormbolters are awesome as you said, SM players will never use assault cannons in their terminators units, will they.?

I don't think Luke was suggesting that the stormbolter is the best weapon in the game. What I believe he was trying to say is that it's one of the best default rank-and-file weapons in the game. The only two I can think of that would be competing would be the Tau pulse rifle and the Necron Gauss Flayer. I personally like the stormbolter better due to the increased mobility, but I can see the case for the other two.

Originally Posted by dhs

You remind me of 2 players whose ignorant are beyond any human being comprehensive.
...
You know what these 2 players said.? NOTHING.

Well to be fair, playing someone else's army list for a faction you're not used to playing could be pretty difficult. Which isn't to say these two folks in question weren't idiots, but hey *shrug*. Here's the thing I find confusing. You seem to be saying in this anecdote that you like playing a pure Grey Knight army because it makes you feel elite if you win, and you've expressed as much in the past when I suggested that you play regular Space Marines as well. But in this thread in particular, the changes you're arguing for are all geared towards making Grey Knights significantly more powerful, and giving them much of the same equipment as regular Space Marines. Isn't this going to destroy what you like about playing Grey Knights? If they become the next 'cheesy' army (though I hate that term), are you still going to like playing them, if what you like about them now is that they're challenging to play?

Well, something to think about, I guess. Just thought it was odd.

-H

[Spector]

Honestly, what I would like to see in the newest Codex for Daemonhunters is getting the Inquisitor side of the Ordo Malleus beefed up a bit. Grey Knights are able to be played solo albeit they do have their weaknesses (namely anti-armor). I'd like to see possibly some more variety within the ISTs, maybe some heavy weapon options or something. I'd just like to see something that makes Daemonhunters as a whole a more complete army. Besides, I don't see too much more they can do to Grey Knights that wouldn't be intruding on something they already do for Space Marines, and I know none of the DH Vets want Grey Knights to become even more similar to SM than they already are.

As it stands now for competitve play, the 2 major types of lists I see for Daemonhunters are either pure Grey Knight with either 3 Dreads or Land Raiders, or Grey Knights with inducted guard. I rarely see alot of ISTs taken. If you compare us to Witch Hunters, its a world of differance. They are much better off when they have to stand on their own for games compared to us.

[Hasten]

Originally Posted by Spector

Honestly, what I would like to see in the newest Codex for Daemonhunters is getting the Inquisitor side of the Ordo Malleus beefed up a bit. Grey Knights are able to be played solo albeit they do have their weaknesses (namely anti-armor). I'd like to see possibly some more variety within the ISTs, maybe some heavy weapon options or something. I'd just like to see something that makes Daemonhunters as a whole a more complete army. Besides, I don't see too much more they can do to Grey Knights that wouldn't be intruding on something they already do for Space Marines, and I know none of the DH Vets want Grey Knights to become even more similar to SM than they already are.

As it stands now for competitve play, the 2 major types of lists I see for Daemonhunters are either pure Grey Knight with either 3 Dreads or Land Raiders, or Grey Knights with inducted guard. I rarely see alot of ISTs taken. If you compare us to Witch Hunters, its a world of differance. They are much better off when they have to stand on their own for games compared to us.

I wholeheartedly agree. Having some more potent options that aren't Grey Knights would hopefully create some variety among lists, while simultaneously helping out the Radical side. I think the comparison to WH is an excellent one as well. Perhaps they could expand on Inquisitorial forces a bit (IST heavy-weapons teams are still my leading favorite suggestion I've heard in these 30-odd pages) and see where it takes them =).

So: Any ideas for what would make some interesting human additions to our forces?

I think something like this would be sweet:

Fast Attack or maybe Troops:
Inquisition Infiltration Team (5-10 models)

Infiltrator - 12 points: IST statline
Veteran - 22: IST Veteran statline and options

Equipment: Frag grenades, Krak Grenades, Short-Pattern Hellgun (Hellgun profile but Assault 2 12")
Options: Up to 2 models may exchange their Short-Pattern Hellgun for a flamer at +5, meltagun at +10, or sniper rifle at +7 (or however much they usually cost... can't remember). One model may be upgraded to a demolitions expert at +10 points. This model exchanges its krak grenades for Melta Bombs, and its Short-Pattern Hellgun for a Hell-Pistol and Demo Charge (per IG codex).
Skills: May Deep Strike or Infiltrate.
Character: One otherwise upgraded model may be upgraded to a Veteran Infiltrator at +10.

Soooo, I dunno. Might be unbalanced, might be silly. I'm thinking something like a black-ops team, with smg-style hellguns. I think it'd be sorta fun =). Thoughts? Ideas? Derisive laughter ?

-H

[Lord Lucias]

Originally Posted by dhs

GK are not SM.? When was the last time you open your DH codex.? Does GW not mention 'super SM' in this codex.?

Obviously GK are SM, but I was getting at us being a completely seperate codex etc to SM. They are an Inquisition Chamber Militant force not another Space Marine Chapter in game terms.

Originally Posted by dhs

is psycannon a heavy and assault weapon.? You can't be serious.

Actually I would say its an assault weapon. Sure if you don't move its HEAVY3 but how many Heavy weapons are assault if you move? None that I can think of... meaning its an Assault weapon with range benefit if you dont move.

Originally Posted by dhs

1- If stormbolters are awesome as you said, SM players will never use assault cannons in their terminators units, will they.?
2- It is not the quantity but the quality.

Okay.... dude you are talking about apples and oranges. I'm talking about stock weapons, weapons that are giving to Infantry as standard weaponary, not upgrades that they have to pay 30points extra for... and notice that the s/bolter is only given standard to Elite warriors
like terminators in other armies... and for us our TROOP get it...

Originally Posted by dhs

You remind me of 2 players whose ignorant are beyond any human being comprehensive. To keep the story short, these 2 players watched me play and when i told another player how hard it was to play 'pure GK', they told me that it was easy and they told me the army list which I recognized immediately because I have been using it for years.

How the hell do I remind you of these players?... I think hastens comments were fair on this, you can't expect someone to do as well as you with your army...

Originally Posted by dhs

To prove my point, I asked them to play pure GK. First, they gave me an excuse that they didn't have any GK models. Well, i told them they could use mine and my army list if they were lazy. Indeed, they followed the bait.

They played 2 games with other players and LOST horribly. I jumped in and used my army list to play against their opponents and kicked their ass. Do you know what I said in the end.?

Let me guess.. you said something like "I am a golden god, bow down to me you weak subjects of wavering faith"?

Originally Posted by Inquisitor_Eljer

If you have nothing more to do than to criticise posts you personally don't agree with why waste your time in posting at all? These conversations are something you HAVE to read or respond to you know.

Now now... lets not get our panties in a twist.. No need to get upset when someone disagrees with your post, not every one will think the same way as you... I (and alot of people I know) have the opinion that Jump packs and Biker GK is a stupid idea and is like giving Imperial Guard 3+ armour saves or firing practise (making up for their weakness)... and being that no-one at the time was voicing that, I thought I would... Is that okay with you? I didn't criticise you personally, just some of your thoughts.. so there is no need for you to get defensive.

You'll find that for alot of things I actually agree with you and haven't have said anything, as they dont need to be changed (IMO)

8Y

[Karmoon]

Very good children.
You've ruined it for everyone.

Thread locked.

I've had enough. I can't afford anymore time to baby sit you while you argue like children over plastic soldiers.

You've ruined everyone else's fun.
Any negative reputation Luke Harvey and DHS gain as a result of this is their own doing, because it's because of them I am locking this thread.

You have had your warnings, and you have chosen to ignore me.

No more.