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  1. #1
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    2000pts - first looks at the book

    I've came back to the hobby after a fairly long hiatus. I'm a 40K obsessed lunatic but saw that 5th ed has came out. Not that I have anything against it but as i'm a bit of a power gamer it's a bit too much of a shock for me I'll have to look at my lists and watch a ton of game before i'm confident enough to get back on the tournament circuit.

    So I have decided to blow the dust off my fantasy armies. Only to realise there is a new (well new for me) Daemon army book!

    I remembered my victories with my Storm Of Chaos daemon army and set to work on building anew. Only to find there has been a few changes

    But subsequently realising they're good ones

    I haven't read any of the Daemon of Chaos lists on this site which could mean my list might be lacking a "must have" unit, but I wanted to put down the list I made with my own thoughts instead of nicking someone else's tournie list and changing a few odds and ends which I admit I have done in the past.

    All C&C are welcome, and as being a tad of a power gamer improvements are appreciated as long as they dont drastically change the army.

    well here we go...

    LORDS & HEROES:

    Slannesh greater deamon - level 4 mage with torment blade

    Khorne herald on chariot - armour of khorne

    nurgle herald with army battle standard - standard of sundering, slime trail

    blue scribes of tzeentch

    CORE:

    20 plaguebearers - full command, 3 x 7

    10 bloodletters - full command

    10 blooletters - full command

    6 furies

    RARE:

    3 beasts of nurgle

    Anyone find it funny that Cities of Death show the two worst combat armies in the game ... in combat!

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  3. #2
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    Interesting list.

    I think the banner of sundering is a great idea especially against Armies like VC and using the KoS will boost that melee. Blue scribes are also too good for the price as those power dice go a long way.

    One thing you might consider is taking Epidemius. Tally counters have really helped me with my nurgle heavy list as you can't go wrong with 4+ Poison attacks and improved nurgle lore casting. If you decide to take Epidemius, I would consider Making the KoS a lvl 3 Wizard and look at making your herald of nurgle a lvl 1 wizard. Miasma of Pestilence is great if you can it goes through and with all that melee would would get that counter up real fast.

    Overall I think your list will be very effective.

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    I admit epidemus is a bargain and when used right is almost abusive. But the army doesn't really have enough nurgle in it for me to find it useful enough (although it does say "poison attacks" so anything like seekers can also benefit from it).

    I wanted the KoS to be level 4 because I think the lore of slannesh is awesome. At level 4 I can pretty much get the two main spells I want: succour of chaos and phantasmagoria. Both these spells are surprisingly easy to cast (too easy to cast imo). A successful casting of Succour of Chaos means my bloodletters don't need babysitting by a herald, rerolling bloodletters that strike first is pretty painful.

    That said pretty much all of the spells in the slannesh lore are useful and work together.

    I did have a bit of a worry of warmachines because the furies are pretty much my only anti warmachine etc unit. And not a very resilient one at that. The KoS's movement 10 may help at this job too (although it being a powerhouse I find I use it more as a support unit).
    Anyone find it funny that Cities of Death show the two worst combat armies in the game ... in combat!

  5. #4
    I've had enough! timk1111's Avatar
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    Ok, my thoughts:

    *Characters are an interesting choice for me - Keeper and Scribes should work well together. Khorne Herald is usually better off on a Jugger with armour of Khorne. He gets his 0+ armour save, and can hide in units. Overall, I think you've spent too much in characters and the rest of the army has suffered.

    *Core is good. 2 units of 5 Furies will pay for itself in an army with no Flesh Hounds (yet)

    *You could drop 1 Beast of Nurgle to pay for the extra Furies, and have a little left over for other stuff.

    *I like you're Herald of Nurgle - cheap for what he does. Nice.

    So what I'd do:

    -Try to limit yourself to 3 characters. Keeper, for speed, spellcasting and being a big scary monster, Scribes to back up his spellcasting, and the Herald of Nurgle to form thr Anvil with the PB's. I don't think the Herald of Khorne has a big enough role in this army to be included - he's using lots of points!

    -Drop 1 Beast

    -Change those 6 furies into 2 units of 5.

    -Drop the commands on the Bloodletters. As support units, they dont need them, and they risk giving away VP's for nothing (captured banner)

    -With the points saved, get in a unit of 3 Fiends of Slaanesh, or 5 Flesh Hounds of Khorne. These are great at taregtting small units, like Warmachines and such, as well as flankers and general supporters.

    -With the spare 150 points, look at doing one of two things. You can either bulk up on what you have, like get those Bloodletters upto 12 strong with unit champ, upgrade teh Herald of Nurgle to level 1 Wizard, give him a Palaquin and/or Noxious Vapours, etc, or sqeeze in another unit. Look at Seekers of Slaanesh, 5 of with Standard and Siren Standard, and target gunline shooting units with them. You'd just have to find 7 or so points somewhere (you could drop slime trail). 5 more Flesh Hounds would be just plain Awesome, if you could find a few more points, too.

    Any, hope it helps, and gives you something to look at. It's extreemely strange to see a list with NO special choice at all, since Flesh Hounds are a very strong choice.

    Tim


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    I agree with you on the herald on chariot, I was looking at flesh hounds after my store told me that GW don't sell bits any more. After the parts i'd have to buy to build a chariot it would be near the cost of flesh hounds anyway. The unit is cheaper, more durable (more wounds and don't get nuked by a cannon) and overall more powerful. I briefly considered having karanak in the unit but felt it was a bit overkill and not where the points needed to be.

    Dropping command off the bloodletters gives me enough points for another unit of furies. This still gives me 27pts.

    Dropping a beast of nurgle... would free up alot of points but... makes me feel that the unit lost alot of its power (good old plagueriders). I'd be more inclined to drop the whole unit, this is 300pts which on the whole is alot of points to play around with. I could buy a 2nd flesh hound unit at 175pts and have two seekers and a lvl 1 nurgle herald or three seekers. I'd prefer the two seekers as this makes unit more manouverable and at only 110pts they could get blown to pieces and i wouldn't twinge a bit. A 5th dispel dice wouldn't hurt either and after the torrent of Slannesh spells and blue scribe stuff (i've known players to leave a few dispel dice for this just in case I get comet of casandora or some other high level spells) I could probably sneak in miasma.

    This makes me worry though, looking at the list now, i've only got one ranked main unit. the rest of the army are flankers, an army of flankers doesn't always function that well when there are no anvil units. Perhaps combining the two bloodletter units into one? The KoS could be used but i'd feel that a bit risky, although at the amount of pts it costs I can imagine a fair few players chucking a unit at it feeling they'd take it out making it a great bait unit... if it survives.
    Anyone find it funny that Cities of Death show the two worst combat armies in the game ... in combat!

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    Totally agree with you on the reservations about not having a whole lot of ranked units. I like your character builds - I run a Lvl 3 KOS, HoK, HoN, HoS in my 2250 army. Depending on if I drop it down to 2000 is where I play around with what my characters have.
    What really is going to hurt is the small numbers of bloodletters. Although they are pretty good in close combat, T3 is a killer. I really disagree with that one, thinking for the close combat monsters they are they should have T4 (like similar points wise models), but with so few of them, your going to get killed with missile fire (HE, DE, Dwarves, etc). By the time they get into combat, your looking at already at -2 or 3 for ranks and outnumbering. Plus add in since your HoK is on a chariot he isn't giving his Hatred bonus over to his unit - not good.
    Not crazy about the Beasts of Nurgle - I highly recommend flamers. For the same points cost, your could run (2) units of 4, with the potential to put out 48 flaming Str4 hits. BoN - really gambling with those ones. Plus they are always going to be outnumbered, ranks, etc.
    I see this list very vulnerable to fast cav - furies could help alleviate it, but if they have any shooting - say goodbye to those guys. Dark elves in particular would tear them up. Tieing this one back into taking flamers - will help you clear those pesky guys out of the way to make room for your KoS to get in there.
    Lore of Slaanesh - I've really seen some nasty combos for it, but in the same token, generally it is based off of leadership. With the progression of armies now, I'm more inclined to lean towards Nurgle and toughness tests. Dwarves, High Elves, Undead, Dark Elves - all shall laugh at having to pass a LD test. (Of course, combining stupidity and phantasmagora can be incredibly effective against just about anyone).

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    well with said changes this makes the list:

    - heroes -
    KoS - lvl 4, torment blade

    HoN - lvl 1 mage, battestandard, standard of sundering

    blue scribes

    - core -
    20 plaguebeaers w/ full command

    2 x 10 bloodletters

    2 x 5 furies

    - special -
    2 x 5 flesh hounds

    - rare -
    2 fiends of slannesh

    7 pd, 5 dp

    This army is now fairly manouverable, with lots of flankers and hitting power.
    However I feel the list now doesn't have alot of staying power. What i could try and do to counter this is to move up one side. Focus the army on one area, using their speed and hitting power to quickly kill off the units while the opponent is still slowly marching towards me.
    Anyone find it funny that Cities of Death show the two worst combat armies in the game ... in combat!

  9. #8
    I've had enough! timk1111's Avatar
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    Looks damn fine to me now

    I think Daemons are rarely about staying power anyway. They're all about hitting hard, and you still have a regenerating block of PB's for staying power anyway, I think you have a good mix.

    Tim


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    Some could say a thread with no posts for over 10 days is dead and therefore this is thread necromancy...

    BUT this is my thread so I don't give a damn

    well with my store having a non existent supply of fiend of slannesh models, despite me asking multiple times for the past couple of weeks to order some. So i thought about something else i could put in, while maybe also saving a bit (£12 each!?!?!).

    It was at this point that I actually properly noticed the masque, before now I had more or less just glanced at it and seen it as a nice little disruption unit. Then I started thinking of how it would work with the rest of the list. As the list is fairly manouverable anything that slows down your oppenent is very nice. I also wondered, could the masque target the general for LD modifiers. I found this fairly scary. I know many people where if you practically negated their general's LD they'd be very unhappy (O&G and beasts spring to mind). This would also lead to a big intimidation factor for only 90pts, and with a 3+ ward she could weather a small amount of missile fire aimed at her.

    Plus this combined with shards of slannesh or a terror test would be an ouch. A nice movement modifier to stop said scary unit from charging me for a turn or to maybe decrease a cavalry unit below 7 to stop those annoying fast cav units. Then lets not forget her stats. While some characters have better at 90pts she has some damn good stats IMO. movement 10 with 5 s4 armour peircing attacks would quite easily kick some warmachine's heinie or do a nice little character assasination (maybe some annoying wizard is hiding in a unit, boom dead, masque too darn combat res) while this isn't using the best of her abilities it's still a nice tactical option. All this for 90pts! bargain! (plus she only costs £7)

    If I do take this awesome unit then this leaves me with 29pts (I originally thought I had 20 pts but then noticed i'd written my list with the scrobe at 90pts too, 9 pts spare now)

    I pondered quite a lot and couldn't really make up my mind, I could give the plaguebearer unit a magical banner or maybe add a few models to a unit here or there. In the end I went with siren song on the KoS, I figured that this could save her from being shot a few times and if done right could set up some nice lose/lose situations ("you can either charge the KoS and then get flanked by the flesh hounds or run away into the furies behind you"). Plus the masque could affect a unit's LD test so said unit would have to take a lowered LD terror test.

    This would now make the list:
    - heroes -
    KoS - lvl 4, torment blade, siren song

    HoN - lvl 1 mage, slime trail, battestandard, standard of sundering

    blue scribes

    masque
    - core -
    20 plaguebeaers w/ full command

    2 x 10 bloodletters

    2 x 5 furies

    - special -
    2 x 5 flesh hounds

    7 pd, 5 dp

    I then noticed that these gave me 2 rare slots. Now I can't choose if I keep the hounds or swap them out for 10 flamers. I don't see what's wrong with flamers in combat, they have the same stats except WS. Sure they're slower but they can chuck out 5D6 bolts at said unit before they charge anyway. I'd lose my hound flankers but gain some uber shooty units.

    You could say I could swap one unit out, but i'm the sort of person who likes a form of redundancy. So unless 5 hounds and 5 flamers are some super combo then it would either be just hounds or flamers.

    Rules query - does standard of sundering affect ogre's gut magic? I just thought how painful that -2 modifier would be (5+ basic to cast their spells...) not to mention the sheer volume of spells they cast would rack up my power dice with blue scribes.

    -edit-
    Oh yeah i'm thinking of taking this to a local tournament on OCT 29th, i'll be catching up on old friends and I think this is a good place to test the effectiveness of the list and to see how rusty i've become at playing fantasy.
    Last edited by noone; September 20th, 2008 at 19:05.
    Anyone find it funny that Cities of Death show the two worst combat armies in the game ... in combat!

  11. #10
    Senior Member very_original's Avatar
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    First of all, yes the banner of sundering does affect gut magic, and second of all, I would probably swap one unit of flesh hounds for flamers, but I wouldn't swap both, flesh hounds are just to darned good. they're fast, hit most things on threes and woulding most things on threes or fours, and then they also have the great magic resistance that makes them quite threatening.

    Good luck in the tourny.

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