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Hello, new poster to libarium but a constant forum lurker as I love to read all the tips and tricks available here. Anyway, I am a 40k player and just recently purchased the Daemons of Chaos to get into Fantasy, that and adding another 40k army seemed viable.
I've only played two Fantasy games so far, the first went horrible and I was literally cleaned off the table and the second was going alright till I got into accidental charge range and everything went downhill.
I've been playing 2k points so that I can make use of a Greater Daemon and those games tend to be more fun (even when losing) however I think the first problem I have is with my lists I make and that I'm not taking the optimum choices available so I thought I'd finally make a post requesting some assistance.
I have a few questions firstly...
I have a game against our club-owner coming up, he will be playing High Elves, and would love a tailored list with what I have to do the best with one exception: NO Special Characters, but other than that it can be as nasty as possible. Anyway, I'll list the models I have available:
- What is the best deployment? Being a combat focused army I usually place them on the edge of my border line.
- What is the best models/rank? I have been using 5 to get maximum rank bonuses but I've read people use 6 or 7 to get maximum attacks in combat.
- Is a Battle Standard worth it? I know that stubborn aura one looks lovely but... Is it worth it in the long run and the point sink?
Lord of Change
Skulltaker (Used as a Herald on foot)
The Masque (Used as a Herald on foot)
Epidemus (I don't use him... He came with the Spearhead...)
6 Fleshhounds (1 Being Karnak)
1 Beast of Nurgle (Never used it before...)
Thanks in advance, I hope I can be helped here, and I hope that with some help I won't be wiped off the board before I even start.
Last edited by Dark_Genisis; January 25th, 2009 at 19:34.
Well let's see, in answer to your original questions.
1) Deployment depends on what your army entails. Typically you'll want to deploy in a position that you cannot get trapped or bogged down by terrain and where your enemy can't avoid your big and nasty units. Fodder units like Furies should be deployed first to force your opponent's hand, so you can see him deploy his important units while you deploy fodder or units that can redeploy quickly and easily.
2) Ranking depends on the unit in question. Plaguebearers and Horrors I would rank as much as possible, they aren't particularly killy and rely on their survivability. Daemonettes and Bloodletters can be run 6 wide with less ranks because their strength comes from killing. Daemons are expensive, so why spend a ton of points for 1 extra CR when you can just go 6 wide and get more from kills and put the points elsewhere.
3) A BSB again depends on your army. Extra CR never hurts and there are a lot of nice banners. Sundering for magic defense, Despair for Ld domination, Victory for extra CR, and the like. The stubborn banner is pretty expensive though, I wouldn't take it normally.
HE are going to have plenty of magic defense and probably a solid offense, so I say screw it and try to get into combat quickly!
A Bloodthirster can stomp anything in his army flate, even Dragon riders. I like Axe of Khorne, Immortal Fury, Armor of Khorne, and a Spellbreaker. Firestorm Blade is too risky because of his Dragon Armor, and you may want to consider Obsidian Armor to negate his magic weapons. Basically, this guy can kill anything in his army dead twice over, so use him to go after expensive characters and break units from the flanks and rear. Don't charge head on without support though.
I like Khorne Heralds on Juggernauts. I'd run a BSB with the Standard of Sundering and Obsidian Armor. He can go toe-to-toe with most Lords, is extremely well protected, and neuters his magic phase.
Slaanesh Heralds are great for messing his formations up. I like Siren Song and a Torment Blade. Draw something in and tear them up.
Bloodletters work exceptionally well against armored troops, I'd run 14 along with your Jugger BSB to smash his heavy infantry. T3 will get hurt badly by ASF, so be careful.
Daemonettes with a Herald will tear up his spear blocks and weaker units while laughing as they have ASF too and a higher I. Keep them protected from shooting though, as T3 isn't all that durable.
Horrors are cheap dispel dice, love it.
Flesh Hounds win. Karanak is expensive though, I'd just run 6 normal Hounds.
Screamers are nice harassment units, great for tearing up skirmishers, fast cav, and war machine crews.
Fiends are excellent flankers and war machine hunters.
I'd run something like this
BT w/ Immortal Fury, Axe of Khorne, Armor of Khorne, Spellbreaker or Immortal Fury, Obsidian Armor, Spellbreaker
Khorne Herald w/ Obsidian Armor, BSB w/ Standard of Sundering
Slaanesh Herald w/ Siren Song, Torment Blade
14 Bloodletters with full command
17 Daemonettes w/ full command and Siren Standard
5 Flesh Hounds
That's roughly 2000 points and has a lot of goodness. The BT is your hammer of DOOM, Bloodletters protect the BSB who is your primary magic defense, Daemonettes tear up his infantry, Fiends flank, Screamers hunt war machine crews, Flamers hit flanks and kill things, and Horrors provide dispel dice.
Last edited by ==Me==; January 26th, 2009 at 14:18.
Thanks for the reply, I like the look of the list a lot but noticed it was lacking points till I realised that the Herald of Slaanesh was missing and quickly added her in, would it be best to upgrade her to a level 1 Wizard for the extra dispel dice or should I throw in the fourth flamer? Please note that with taking the level 1 Wizard I'll be 2 points over so the Torment blade may need to be cut back.
Also about Siren Song, wouldn't that kinda be bad against High Elves? As you said they also have Always Strike First and thus the two null eachother out and then they would go first because they are charging? Or are there units that don't have it, then I would definitely see usage for it.
With the Bloodletters you said full command but didn't put any of the standard's, can you have a clean standard purely for the combat resolution bonus? I always thought you had to upgrade to one of the special ones.
I took the second Bloodthirster build as I'm not a fan of the Axe of Khorne... I thought killing blow was awesome till I read the rule about it only being able to be used on units with a certain Unit Strength, and anything with that low of a US surely would just be killed with his high strength going through its armor regardless?
Anyway thanks again, I see where I was going wrong with my builds (trying to max everything with every possible upgrade available) and I'm glad to see my second Fiend can finally fit in.
Sorry, forgot the Slaanesh Herald XD
The extra dispel dice would never hurt here, but I do so love the torment blade.
When 2 units with ASF fight, the unit with higher I goes first. Daemonettes outspeed HE so it doesn't matter who charges.
Yep, normal standards are totally fine, the magic version is just a little bonus.
KB is a nice little bonus and a good way to get through characters with lots of armor and ward saves, plus it gives you a ton of extra CR for challenges.
My Daemonettes just got nastier... I just read the book about ASF and when I saw that passage which you basically summed up I couldn't help but grin. Thanks very much for that insight.
Guess an extra flamer will be added then, can't complain about that as adding an extra d6 shots is lovely and the torment blade is great against enemy characters that manage to survive - though I heard High Elves have high leadership so I hope that it atleast gets some effects. Also I guess an extra dispel dice isn't so needed since Daemons have Magic Resistance oozing from them, and with Sundering I hope he really won't have much of a sucessful magic phase.
Anyway I got some painting to do before the day, thank you VERY much ==Me==
Torment Blade is mostly there for the extra attack, but the Ld effect is rather nice when it does go off. 3DD and Sundering might be scary, but you spent those points on fighty units so you should be able to make up the difference
Happy to help, good luck to you.