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  1. #1
    Son of LO Phaeron Typhoon's Avatar
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    172 (x7)

    Thinking about starting Daemons (2k Balanced?)

    First of all let me say that I am a long time fantasy player (the owner of several thousands of points of different armies). Let me secondly mention that I am not a very good player. Because of this I have been looking towards me next army to sink loads of cash into and I started thinking about DoC.

    Normally I have thought about and then summarily avoided playing any of the "Big Three" as I tend to avoid people crying cheese at me. Now I am rethinking my stance on the subject. I am not a great player (as I have mentioned), I have a firm grasp on list building and theoryhammer, but when it comes to putting plastic (or metal) to the tabletop I tend to forget most of what I know or have planned.

    I have decided that were I to play DoC, it would not be overpowered, it would merely even out the playing field with my fellow (better) wahammer generals. That being said,I cant fully shake my old ways, so I am putting forth what I think is a balanced list for your approval or criticism. I really do like the list as it is, but if it ends up being utter crap then I might move over to a different army instead.

    Anywho, here it is.

    Herald of Nurgle- General
    Level 1
    Palanquin
    Noxious Vapors
    Slime Trail

    Herald of Nurgle- Battle Standard Bearer
    Level 1
    Palanquin
    Noxious Vapors
    Slime Trail

    Herald of Tzeentch
    Power Vortex

    Herald of Tzeentch
    Master of Sorcery
    Winged Horror

    16 Plaguebearers
    Full Command

    16 Plaguebearers
    Full Command

    10 Horrors

    6 Chaos Furies

    5 Flesh Hounds
    5 Flesh Hounds


    5 Flamers

    This all comes out to a little under 2k. While it is a DoC list, it seems like a relatively balanced list as far as I am concerned. Moderate number of powerdice, no Greater Daemons, The army isn't terribly weighted in one direction or another.

    Please tell me what you think. Rep will be awarded for helpful comments and discussion.

    Last edited by Phaeron Typhoon; March 3rd, 2010 at 15:58.
    "I am the architect of fate!"

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  3. #2
    Organised Chaos saltrock36's Avatar
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    I tip my cap to you, this is a very fair daemon list and your not going to loose any freinds using it, somthing of a rareity as far as daemon lists go.

    I do however think your HoNs need a bit of tooling up. Sure they are solid but you need a nasty trick or two just to stop those uber armies even if its just on your general to stop those character killers with there multiple wounding weapons or killing blow in particular (no regen remember). My vavourite, Noxious vapours as it makes your attacker always strike last even if equiped with always strike first, and as it affects models in base cotact and your on a palaquin your getting at least 4 25mm bases each turn, letting your unit strike first aswell.

    Now i like to take Noxious Vapours with either Stream of Bile or Soul Hunger, allowing me to march right up to a unit and breath on them safe knowing if they charge me im striking first anyway for most of my models, or in the case of Soul Hunger being able to getting to reroll to wound in the first rund of combat. Out of the two Stream of Bile i think is best as you should give your units or one of them the Standard of Seeping Decay allowing rerolls to wound all the time for the same points as giving it to your units.

    Your second tzeentch guy i personaly would either drop the wings for Spell Breaker and run him arround in the flamers (if your good at using them), or keep wings and drop Master of Sorcery. Now i think Master of Sorcery is realy good as you can relly on always getting the spell you want for the job, the difficulty is maybe going to be in your opponent letting it off if say you plying undead and yu take lore of light for instance. that herald is going to be watched. on the other hand having to sourceres using the same lore, tzeentch in this case, you may not have the super spell of a certain lore but you are more likely to get that spell of tzeentch off.

    Then again, you dont need Power vortex at all, drop that and have them both take MoS, one with wings and one with spell breaker.

    Hounds, good.
    Flamers, good.
    Furries, i would look at maybe just the one unit of 6 just to steal an objective/table quarter/ block line of sight etc. They are not amazing so points to spend else where.

    (getting a bit long now.)

    Your right in that it isnt a very wieghty list. Against most armies you are going to have to play a game unlike most daemon armies which are able to stumble through them flailing things on the way past to victory. If i was to say you want a balanced list with a greater daemon it would be to do...a sinlge mark list. This is how after all the book was intended to be fair, by taking a single mark your army becomes really limited but i have found more fun to play. In this case i would go for a Great Unclean One at lvl 3 pestilent mucus and maybe trappings or staff of nurgl and just slam him forward as fast as possible ito the enemy units. a herald or two as you have them in units but maybe a few more gifts. then maybe a unit of 10 more Plague bearers to sit another normal herald, lvl 1 with staff to add some more magic. if that unit getts thined down jump t a bigger unit.

    Anyway better stop, hope some of these helped a little, and i would ignore the bottom part of changing you list so drasticaly thats more along the lines of if you want a balanced list with greater daemon as mentioned.

    Saltrock36
    Last edited by saltrock36; March 2nd, 2010 at 10:37.

  4. #3
    Son of LO Phaeron Typhoon's Avatar
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    172 (x7)

    Thank you for your thoughts, I have amended the list to take into account some of your suggestions on beefing up the HoN's.

    I think now my blocks of PB's will be alot more survivable.
    "I am the architect of fate!"

  5. #4
    I have a cunning plan no1cafc's Avatar
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    This list looks pretty solid thought most Daemon lists are. There is a few things I'd want to change though that I think would sharpen the list though it's up to you if you want to do that.

    The lv1 upgrades on the Nurgle Heralds I feel is a bit of a waste, the main reason I see it being taken is for an extra dispel dice since you only get 1 spell which will be the 1st in the lore which is very situational and any others you will need to use a pool dice that is better used by the Tzeentch department. So you may get 10 power dice in the magic phase but 2 of them will rarely be used. To get the most of the 8 that will be used I suggest droping the lv1 upgrades and giving them Staffs instead of Slime Trail and Vapours. The Staff of Nurgle is extremely good and will give you a decent magic phase since starting the phase with 2 of them will draw out dice since they can't really be ignored and if they are ignored you will cause some pain. The Heralds are survivable enough and most things will probably avoid charging a Plaguebearer unit head on.

    So if you do that it will leave you with 70pts. The next suggestion is to make up for the 2 dispel dice you lost with a standard of sundering on the bsb. Then you have 20pts to play with so you could drop a Furie and a musician to get a 6th flamer or do what you see fit.
    BEN DIESEL FTW!!!

  6. #5
    Organised Chaos saltrock36's Avatar
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    The level one upgrades for the HoN are a 50/50 thing. Some people drop them but then what can you spend the spare points on in this case. I like them as the basic spell (if im thinking right) once again amazingly improoves your nurgle units in close combat, turning the models in base contact (palaquin once again making up its points here) into vegetables. Able to cast it on one dice aswell (3+ i think the level) means its not distracting from your main power casters the HoT and Horrors. You also gain the 2 extra dispel dice which is nice.

    Staff of Nurgle is good, but consider what you would have to give up considering it takes up all of your daemonic gifts allocation. It greatly negate the fighting potential of your units and is best suited to an all casting army with the HoN as lvl1 and Staff of Nurgle, in small units of 10-12 Plague Bearers with no command like Horror units. Possibly all nurgel army with a GUO to maximise list of nurgle casting. If anything you need Vapours and Slime trail to make up for the lack of a greater daemon to do the big fighting.

    Banner of sundering is good but there are alot of armies not using magic at the moment or at least nothing that 7 dispel dice cant solve. I still believe you need a spell breaker in the list just incase an uber spell like Pit or Gateway gets cast on a big unit or you need to stop a movment spell.

  7. #6
    Son of LO Phaeron Typhoon's Avatar
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    Yeah, the main reason I actually went with the lvl 1 upgrades was for the first spell, it isnt that situational as it would be usefull in any combat. Suddenly my palanquins many attacks are all hitting on 3's and wounding on 2's? Yes please!

    Also, if i dont get to get the spell off, then i still have the vapors to fall back on to help with combat. Redundancy is a good thing.

    As for the Herald of Tzeentch Suggestions, I will definitly keep it in mind, but right now the plan is to have the PV herald sitting with the horrors to protect a flank from skirmishers with 2 flickering flames. Then the other herald flies around with annoying lores like metal or beasts to screw with the opponent (like using beast cowers on monsters or sniping characters with death or metal)

    So ill try this setup for now, but if it ends up not working well I will try your spell breaker suggestion. Ill also give the Staff heralds a try as well.
    Last edited by Phaeron Typhoon; March 6th, 2010 at 02:28.
    "I am the architect of fate!"

  8. #7
    I have a cunning plan no1cafc's Avatar
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    Well I do seriously recommend trying a pair of staffs, they are the sort of item you need to see in action before you release how nasty they are and you have the sort of magic phase they support extremely well. I think you will be really missing out if you don't use them.
    BEN DIESEL FTW!!!

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