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    Vs. Vampire Counts

    Ha, well now my friend is looking at the Vampire Counts. At least we could use these topics in the eventual tactica maybe... so do you all have any tips on defeating the Vampire Counts and things to watch out for?

    One thought I had was that the Blue Scribes could be pretty effective with getting a power die everytime they cast to raise a unit.

    I assume one of the main focuses has to be on taking out their heros? Would the Skulltaker fit well? How do our Greater Demons stack up against their Lords?

    thanks again for your thoughts,
    trevdor


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    Ahhhhh.... nekochen's Avatar
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    Bloodthirster w/ Obsident Armour, Axe of Khorne, Immortal Fury will wade through any single character one on one... that includes High Elf's Tyrion. Or, you could go with Armor of Khorne, Dark Insanity, Firestorm Blade, 2D6+2 S7 attacks and take out any rank & files units in one go... except Dragon Princes because of their stupid Dragon Armour (or swap out Dark Insanity with Immortal Fury if you can't roll at least average)
    Last edited by nekochen; May 25th, 2008 at 21:27.

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    Tyranid Warrior Fanatic Phalanx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nekochen View Post
    Bloodthirster w/ Obsident Armour, Axe of Khorne, Immortal Fury will wade through any single character one on one... that includes High Elf's Tyrion. Or, you could go with Armor of Khorne, Dark Insanity, Immortal Fury, 2D6+2 S7 attacks and take out any rank & files units in one go. (or swap out Dark Insanity with Immortal Fury if you can't roll at least average)
    I fixed it for you. Even against T5, Immortal Fury gives you more wounds than S7 IIRC, plus it works against DPs.

    8/9*2/3=16/27 compared to 2/3*5/6=10/18 = 5/9 -> Immortal fury gives you an extra 4% wounds/attack against t5 than Firestorm Blade, and an extra (8/9*5/6-2/3*5/6=) 18.5% wounds/attack against T4 or less. Immortal fury is the best upgrade we have for the BT. I would even take it before taking Armour of Khorne or Obsidian Armour if I was forced to make the choice.
    40K armies: Tyranids (2001), Space Wolves (2008), Sisters of Battle (2011)
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    Shrubs for the Blood God Undead Bonzi's Avatar
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    Ahhh, I knew the day would come when we would be visited by the inevitable "What do we do against VC?" question.

    We really have the same answers as other armies have, so there really isn't a need to discuss this ad-nauseum.

    What we really have to give advantage over VC is all ItP troops. We can also have an exceptionally strong magic phase (Heralds of Tzeentch with Lore of Light ect). We also have superior speed overall, though Van Hells can make things tricky. Our strength is in our special, rare and hero slots while the vampires true strength is only in 2 spells, if they didn't have IoN or Van Hells they would be a cakewalk.

    The 1 thing to look out for vs VC is the tarpit. That is the one trump they hold over us, especially our GD's. Even a Bloodthirster can't reliably wade through 30 zombies in one turn, which is what he has to do if you don't want the unit to just be healed back up in the VC magic phase. To beat VC you need to slow their magic phase (you can't stop it), try to assasinate Heroes and Lords (very difficult if they are in a unit with a champion), and as always flank, flank, flank. You need to get the flank on the big blocks to negate ranks and force a quicker crumble. You need to kill faster than they can raise, thats what it boils down to. Just be happy Daemons are fairly evenly matched when fighting VC, some armies have a much more difficult time.
    The only honorable options left to we combatants is seppuku or semantics...which amount to the same thing really.
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    Ahhhhh.... nekochen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Undead Bonzi View Post
    To beat VC you need to slow their magic phase (you can't stop it)
    I could! With my pure tzeentch army of Blue Scribes + 15 P.Dice and 9 Dispel Dices. :party::party:

    Jokes aside... I havent really tried playing against this VC guy and his 1st turn charge army yet (3 Flying Vampires + Ghoulkin), so I am still seeking some possible solution to take against his army.

    He fashions the Forbidden Lore vampire trait so he could abuse the Lore of Shadow -- Unseen Lurker in combo with the Vanhel's Macabre... that, plus his unit of Blood Knights equals a lot of death.

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    There are two things which seems to typify VCs Hard hitting characters, and magic. Stop them and you have the victory in the bag for Daemons...

    One thing worth considering is taking the Great Standard of Sundering... then you pick the Lore of Vampires... that will slow down their magic...

    Maybe run a Tzeentch Hearld with some Horrors to add some magic as well which should weaken their magic and throw in the changling incase a vampire wants to attack not to mention they have flaming attacks which can be great when facing off against Regenerating enemies!

    You'll also find that things like Seekers of Slannesh can be quite nasty as their speed would allow them to get flanks and Slannesh Deamons generally as most of the have ASF which could be important as you might be able to take out those characters before they can attack.

    That being said Khorne units can be quite nasty as well... as they have a better movement generally than VC units and High Strength and killing blow! The magic resistance isn't that good however as VC powers generally are targeted on their own units.

    Nurgle stuff doens't seem to fit quite right against Vampires although they have higher toughness their Iniative and WS is quite low...

    So there are some thought for you hope that they help...
    There is nothing more annoying when your Wyches with Plasma Grenades get "Always strikes First" for their combat drugs!

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    Huge Member Jimmy_boy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malkieth View Post
    Nurgle stuff doens't seem to fit quite right against Vampires although they have higher toughness their Iniative and WS is quite low...
    I disagree Malkieth. A unit of Plaguebearers with a Herald can be used to absorb a charge from one of their harder hitting units. Their 5+ ward + regen. makes them a formidable unit. I'm experimenting at the moment, but I think a block of plaguebearers up the middle with Herald (with BS is an excellent holding unit, while you use the faster units (hounds etc) on the flanks. Don't forget either that they have poisoned attacks, which is always a bonus.

    As for general tactics against vampires, I'd say that daemons shouldn't have any harder time than other armies. Daemons have the bonus that ethereal is useless against them as well, since all daemonic attacks are counted as magical.

    I think that Flamers are a nice little unit to use in a situation such as this. A line of those firing at a block of zombies or skellies is going to reduce their numbers, meaning the VC player should waste a few PD trying to raise those rather than using Van Hells. Don't just focus on slowing their magic phase, try to dictate which spells he has to use. If he spends all his time raising units instead of using his other spells, it gives you a chance to get the jump on his stronger units, and worry about those zombies etc. later.
    So Sayeth Jimmy boy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy_boy View Post
    I disagree Malkieth. A unit of Plaguebearers with a Herald can be used to absorb a charge from one of their harder hitting units. Their 5+ ward + regen. makes them a formidable unit. I'm experimenting at the moment, but I think a block of plaguebearers up the middle with Herald (with BS is an excellent holding unit, while you use the faster units (hounds etc) on the flanks. Don't forget either that they have poisoned attacks, which is always a bonus.

    I agree with you 100%. Then with the banner that gives you a bonus for unsaved poison wounds will help the combat res.
    Last edited by Rork; May 26th, 2008 at 16:54. Reason: Watch the quote tags.

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    Chaos Pheonix Guards? :party:

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    In my opinion, the biggest weakness the VC's have vs. Daemons (which we can take advantage of) is their inability to flee, combined with their dex's propensity for having just a few very fierce hammer units.

    Take Big Red, tooled up as suggested earlier, and throw him at their Hammers, whether they be a big Grave Guard unit, a Blood Knights posse, a Varghulf, whatever. They can't flee, so they have to take the charge. They can't win, so you krump them. They can mitigate the damage a bit with a challenge, but they certainly aren't going to deal any damage to you. The rest of the army was depending on that/those units to do the actual killing, so they end up in quite a state, devoting their magic phase to keeping your big red killing machine trapped locking up their best fighters. You ought to have superiority everywhere else as a consequence.

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