Welcome to Librarium Online!
Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!
Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!
Well, I've only perused the book once and played a few small games, but it strikes me as a book very much built around implementing and supporting its lord choices. A Daemons army below 2,000 pts doesn't really scare me all that much. I don't know if that's a true 'weakness' but it's certainly a drawback or limitation. It also has the same hazard as any army that puts a 500+ point general on the board in 2,000 pts. Sometimes there's gonna be that game where a couple of lucky cannon shots in the first two turns end it before it began.
Some of the popular builds also seem very vulnerable to gunline armies that win first turn and have some flying or scouting march blockers to get out there and mess with the advance.
After playing about 20 proxy daemon games now it seems that they have a few very glaring weaknesses.
1. Lack of anti magic ability: Unless your playing Tzeentch getting scrolls in your army is near impossible (Bloodthirster is the only non Tzeentch model to get access to them). People may Say Khorne has Magic resistance but MR 1 is not going to stop much and seeing as if you playing mono khorne you get 2 dispell dice get ready to eat some spells. Not to mention MR doesnt affect multi unit spells or spells that arent targeted at you specificly (Drain magic, Invocation and such). When it comes down to it you rely on your 5+ wardsave to bounce magic missiles for the most part.
2. With the exception of Slaneesh and certain units such as Furies/Screamers (due to flying) Gunlines ravage this list. While Movement 5 is nice and all its not fast enough to close the gap in 2 turns in order to tie up shooting units.
3. Lack of Warmachine protection : Except for furies and nurglings not a whole lot you can do about warmachines. Slaneesh is fast enough but has to bust through whatever units they have in front of the warmachines. Furies are unfortunatly so far pretty freaking terrible for 12 points. I would MABE pay 8 but for 12 they underpreform pretty badly. Nurglings scout which is nice but they once again fall into that they have to get through whatever units are protecting said machines.
4. Ogre Complex: Break them on the charge or be prepared for a very very bloody battle. Bloodletters are amazing on the charge but as soon as Hatred runs dry their combat potential really plummets. Dont get me wrong its still A bloodbath but it drasticly decreases. Daemonettes toss out loads of low Str attacks but dont have the wounding power to drop certain armies. Nurgle are an exception due to the fact that they are designed to just stick it out for freaking ever. Tzeentch shouldnt be in combat but it still relies on the kill em fast or you die factor.
5. Reliance on Lord/Heroes: Units dont reach their full potential unless a Herald joins them. While this is cool and i dont mind it it restricts your list choices as you pretty much need to base what herald you pick based on the core you pick. Not a biggie but unfortunate.
Greater Daemons are practicly a must 2000+ and its a crying shame. THey are still a tad expensive and despite their Toughness their wardsave is still only a 5+. Dont let the statline fool you (once again nurgle being the exception) They are incredibly fragile. All it takes is a single cannonball or a single spell with enough str to wipe over a quarter of your army off the board.
6. Magical punch. Unless you pack loads of Tzeentch characters you dont have the huge pile of Powerdice/Bound items you need to have a really sucessfull magic phase. Phantasmagoria while quite possibly being my favorite spell to ever exist is a pain in the rear to get off based on the fact that i dont have enough Powerdice to eat through say highelves/dwarves dispell dice to ever dream of getting it off baring IF (off on a tanget a bit but last game i played with my Keeper of Secretes i Got Phantasmagoria off IF style 2 turns in a row. HA).
I love the army and think its fun but they remind me alot of Ogre's as they have the same weakness's and playstyle.
My main problem with the list is its obvious that mono god was not intended but at the same time the list is built to almost restrict you to one or two gods. Seems like the ballanced the book based on the fact that you could mix gods but forgot the fact that you cant take everything at once.
Sounds like im complaining about the army alot and i suppose i am to an extent. Cool army just a tad missballanced. The exception once again being Nurgle as through playtesting Mono Nurgle is quite possibly the strongest army list ive ever seen. Granted my opinions are subject to change as i play more games. Theese are just my initial impressions.
Im awesome and so is Dave. everyone have a pleasent day
Looking for help with your Ogre kingdoms. Need help against them? have burning questions about life or why Dave's Avatar is so creepy. Feel free to stop by and ask OverTyrant Loki
their saves are horrible too. i wish they could upgrade their saves or just an option like 40k where you can choose which save to use and only get one. with T3, puny clanrats can kill a bunch of daemons with their str3 hits and i need to save on 5+ not the "usual" 4+ on most troops out there.
I would be curious to hear how you use your Furies. I've gotten far more than my points worth out of them every single game I've played. 12 points seems fairly reasonable for ItP, flying skrimisher unit with +5 ward save. You do hit the nail on the head in your point about the mono and undivided god balancing.
My biggest problem with the army as a whole is that it becomes somewhat obvious that the army was designed for 40K and WHFB (especially the boxes). Our units in Fantasy lack any sort of customization or upgrade options which I assume is to a degree because the 40K players would have no use for sheilds, spears, extra hand weapons ect in their boxes. They could have a least given the options for 'lesser' daemoic gifts to be granted to the foot units so we could have more character in how they play. Also the model posess of the bloodletters is obviously more for 40K where ranking up isn't an option. I've tried to be fairly careful building the models so that I can rank them up, yet there are many posess with the sword sticking staight forward or that long tounge actually getting in the way by hitting the back of the model ahead.
As to the greatest weakness in the army as a playing entity...probably the T3 of so many of our units. That T3 leaves us very vulnerable to shooting and enemies that throw out scads of low Str attacks. Daemons are quite good against quality troops but they fall short against quantity troops.
I also am sad that we lack a decent middle level/support Lord option for the 2000 point level. The Daemon Prince would need to be able to join units, have another point of LD and be about 70 points cheaper before I would consider him. Also his marks would need to do something more than give you acess to the GD gifts...35 points for the ability to select from an armory? No thanks.
The only honorable options left to we combatants is seppuku or semantics...which amount to the same thing really.
Like before it seems that the daemons are a extreem elite amry which brings us to it's weakness. a lot of shot's or attacks will always kill a daemon army. You don't need S8 attacks against deamons you need 2 S4 attacks. It's more about volume then about power against the daemons. I'm personally a tzeentch believer it's possible to out do the VC and creat 16 PD list without to much trouble at all but who is going to use al the dice? The greater daemons if you loose him you are basicly screwed. IT helps a lot if you can bring some special charcters in the list since they are good value for points incomparison with the rest of the daemons. especially kairos all though weak a 3+ ward save and +2 to cast a reroll and ignore first miscast Is freaking amazing for just 625 points. unfortuantly you will get a lot of trouble in competition events since you will probably score 0 on those in every comp tournement.
Don't get me wrong I think the armies will do just fine and over time They will get more time to make things perfect and the weakness should be delt with. If you see a load of high model number units across the board. jsut make sure only half is left when they are at your doorstep and you will be fine.
The model posing on the other hand...*sigh*. I built all bar the front rank off the bases so they would rank up properly - but then it just means it will be difficult for my opponent's models to align ("Sorry, you can't charge - my swords are too big"). Even then some in the 2nd rank are getting over-familiar with the daemon in front of him...
Having an army and not owning a rulebook is like owning a car with no steering wheel.Originally Posted by amishcellphone
My bloodletters are always preparing for a rear charge and a friend of mine has them crowd surfing. I hate those swords.