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Seems a tooled up L4 wizard for us is 600+ points and I am really not sure if it is a good investment. L3 maybe but anyone but LOC might not get the spells I want. BT seems to be OK for 500sh since he has a regular 3+ as well to keep him alive longer while the other daemons only has a 5+ ward (although T6 helps but probably not a good insurance). The GUO is pretty much unkillable but he cant kill anything in combat so not that good. I am interested in LOC and KOS but not sure if they are good enough with their saves and everything. Any stories or suggestions for these wizard GDs?
600+ points is fine to me, you just have to hold back on Heralds a little. 1-2 at the most.
If you go with the LOC, he'll play a points denial game. I would give him Master of Sorcery. Against a shooty army, pull out lore of Life or Heavens, and there's spells that don't need Line of Sight, or have unlimited range (heavens), and LoC can hide from cannonballs. Against anything else, pick what ever lore you like, and blast away with magic!
With the KoS, most people will tool him up with the LD abilities, and use in combination with the Banner of Despair or such. He's a guy, like BT, where movement is critical, and you must pick your fights. His access to to Lore of Slaanesh is important, too, coz there are damn good spells in there.
The lack of armour in both cases is usualy counteracted with the other parts of the army. For example, alongside my BT is 2 units of Flesh Hounds, 2 units of Furies, and 1 unit of Fiends. These units can clean up enemy shooting by turn 2, which usually works pretty well for me, as BT's first move can be up behind a Hill or Forest or something anyway, so he's still making ground.
I happen to be a fan of the Great Unclean One, also He is pretty close to unkillable, as you said, and access to the Lore of Nurgle is awesome. However, crap in combat!? He's not that bad! Sure, he's more of a support character. but get off Miasma of Pestilence, and he'll kill anything! He also come with a flail, for a bit of S8 love.
And all this said..
All bow to Bloodthirster! Easily My favourite. Being the cheapest GD when fully tooled, I don't think you can go too far wrong.
The only thing better than a GD though, is a Daemon Prince. Awesome.
JOKE! Just wanted a reaction
do you mean that the flail owned by the GUO is not fluff but has the normal rules of flails(+2S on charge)?
...about prnces..it's like an open wound now
i always used those guys when they had the 2 fundamental characteristics of Terror and Fly for free but now....and think of the 3 i have ...and maybe never use.. sob (cry)
Last edited by watchman; June 30th, 2008 at 08:35.
Sorry to open that wound then, owning 3 is tough. If I were you, and I owned 3 of them, I still find a way to use at least 1. They have some good points about them.
Have a look at the GUO's unit entry. Under weapons it will say: Flail. And it's +2S on the first round - you don't have to even charge. The other thing that gets this guy good in CC is noxious vapours. Pretty much a GUO that gets ASF.
damn...must be the age.. i must be more cautious with details such this, well thanx!!
so the GUO(i like him so much and used more then the other GD in the past) , its very very useful more than ever..
for the princes i found some build up for them that may be useful for 3000 pts battles but good for 2000 pts matches. i'll write in the right section
I have had bad experience using furies - they have human stats except str and they cant take on a normal 10 men archer squad and hounds imo are probably too valuable to spend 2-3 turns running them down while they could be taking care of flanks or other enemies.
Playing keep away with your Keeper is not 'wussy', it is smart. 'Wussy' is a word that morons use when you beat them in a game using brains instead brute force. Such considerations are irrelevant and you should not obcess over things like 'cheese' or 'playing wussy'. Concerns about these things seem to work their way into your posts far too much, you need to just play the game and forget about these irrelevant issues. Nowhere in the BRB or the Daemons Army book is it listed that units cannot be played cautiously, nor is there any entry in the army composition section regarding cheese. Play the game in any style you see fit, as long as it isn't against the rules then it does not matter.
Also you should not dismiss furies because they are not good in mainline combat. Furies shouldn't really be used in direct combat or unless your general is closeby to offer a LD bonus to them. Furies main job is to stand in front of your better units holding giant bullseyes, asking to be shot. I've had maybe two games where my Furies actually got into combat, every other game they have been wiped out by shooting but that was ok because it ment that my Hounds and Letters got to combat completly unhurt. Another advantage of flying units can be found in the Battle Reports section on the main forum. Read Sabris Slays report on his Daemon Army vs HE. If you read you will find that a lot of his army was held up most of the game by a single HE great eagle. That is march blocking at its finest and our Furies are just as good in that role as a great eagle. It also illustraits the usefullness of having 360 degree shooting flamers protecting your lines...just try and land an eagle within 18" of those guys.
The only honorable options left to we combatants is seppuku or semantics...which amount to the same thing really.
How many PD do i really need to get the KOS's spells going? I am thinking KOS, L1 nurgle herald, tzeentch herald and that will get me 9. I am thinking of pulling of phantasmagoria then into slicing shards - or straight into slicing shards and the other LD based spell (forget name) if phantasmagoria wont have much "effect" the following turn. Another problem I see in the Banner of despair combo is that my army wont have chance to enjoy the BSB's rerolls because he is busy flying around giving -2s. Is that a huge problem? Just not sure if this whole "combo" is worth the trouble.