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which GD do you think will get his points back fast and stay alive? BT can pretty much rip any "single model" besides char on dragons to shreds in one turn - while LOC/Kairos will take considerable magic to bring them down. I think BT loses his explosiveness if there aren't many expensive units while LOC can always have steady output. Not sure how many expensive creature/units there can be in a 2250 game but without BT I had problems against stegadons, giants and couple other tough monsters with my spells...
Bloodthirster. When he gets angry, he can really be ripping the place up. In 5 games I've only lost him once and in the others he has usually made combats very one sided. While I usually give him a little support, even against low value army he's up to the task - Last night he took part in taking down 25 Orcs (plus hero), 25 Goblins, 5 spider riders, 15 Orcs (plus warboss) and terrorising another 5 spider riders off the table.
Usually I send in Flesh hounds with him just to make sure - in the right position he can destroy units by himself.
Having an army and not owning a rulebook is like owning a car with no steering wheel.Originally Posted by amishcellphone
I have alot more luck with my LOC than my BT in getting points back.
My LOC can do the enemy damage every turn, unlike my BT who basicly moves, assaults, turns assaults. and so only gets and average of 3 phases to get his points back in and often gets his head blown off by a cannon.
My LOC on the Other hand can kill a cannon turn 1 and fights very well in CC.
How do you deal with Dragons and giants etc. with LOC? surely not charge into combat? There arent many big str spells available and BOC will be dispelled or attempted at max by opponent. I always seem to pick Kairos over LOC everytime - the much better save is great so is the magic but i will have even harder time dealing with monstrosities....
Well the main problem with using a Non ranged Daemon like a BT against a dragon is that if the dragon player is at all smart he will keep out of the BT's charge arc and depending on whor or what is riding the dragon the combo of rider and dragon may well be tougher than your BT.
The LOC has access to Bolt of Change the most powerful magic missile in the game, provided he can get it off the LOC can easly kill dragons with a few shots. At the same tiem the LOC can take on the 360 charge sqirmishers that are the bane of characters like Kairos.
I also agree with dragon players just out manuver the BT - happened to me when I was playing dark elf - although on the bright side his expensive unit wasn't doing anything except running from my BT so it was "ok". I can see BT not getting points back against skaven since they are so cheap..
This weekend i prob play against popemobile, tomb kings and ogres -any suggestions on which GD will make the best of it?
I think it's less about which GD you use than how you play him. I think it's pretty easy to kill and retain points with a GUO as well as a KoS, BT or LoC. It's all in the playstyle for me.
No, I don't have any wool.
I thinh this discussion is missing some very important points (though I can't find fault with anything said so far, I just think things were not mentioned)
A BT doens't find it hard to make it's points back, because it's easy to kill something with it and it doesn't cost that much. However, the BT is probably the easiest to kill since it has to go into combat. It also doesn't save the points from other units as well as the others do because it doesn't contribute DP dice.
The LOC however is a better choices because he can just stay out of combat and give more damage and save more lives by doing so. However, he is still a very fragile daemon due to not having as good defense, and also being susceptible to shooting if he stays out. GD's main worry should be cannons, as most of the other stuff capable of killing them is much rarer.
My personal choices is the GUO. It's not going to die, it's just nt going to happen, so you don't really have to calculate the chances of losing it too much. It also has the pretty much average speed of the army, which means more use out of it's higher leadership for Instability. It can slo add to magic defense as well. If relying on the points it will simply save you from losing isn't enough, your can also make a lot of of points back if you target the right units. Any small units targeted by the GUO is most likely going to lose, despite it's low attack power, simply because of it's higher US. It's probably the only GD that can abuse the fact that losing comabt to an outnumbering, fear causing unit needs double 1s to stay. Suddenly the killing power of the GUO is increased, espcielly against that pricey 5-man cavalry unit. They can also kill chariots in the first round of combat with one hit, something a tomb kings player at my club learned the hard way. The GUO is also a pricey GD though, and it's results are not as consistent as the other.
I don't have enough experience with the KOS to comment on it though, as I don't really like Slannesh units. Seems like it's Combat ability is going to earn a few point, and always strikes first is bound to save it a lot of wounds. Magic defense is there too. Still it's one of the pricey GD along with the GUO.
Anyway, my basic point is that they can all make thier points back in very different ways, and measuring it may not always be consistant, decisive, or even obvious. It's best to play the one that would best suit the army as a whole.
i love magic and prefers LOC (especially since i bought it recently..) but my main worry is playing against Monstrosities - last time i had kairos and my opponent's BT ripped a couple of my units apart and i really didn't have an answer to him (flamers not worth it, plaguebearers too slow, anything "fast" charging him is a deathwish) except hoping the best to "bolt" him to death - i did get one through but rolled like 2 hits at str 5...
MOS and lore of fire. Cast sword of Rhuin. Done.
If that monstrosity is not fazed by 6 strength 9 attacks hitting on 2+, it's probably not supposed to die.