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~The last spell on the Nurgle list, Plague Wind, makes every one of the models in the unit make a toughness test and creates a Nurgling, which costs XX points, for every three wounds it causes.
~The last spell on the Tzeentch list, Tzeentch's Firestorm, only does 2d6 wounds and creates a pink horror for every three wounds, with a maximum on four horrors. Pink horrors are about 1/3rd the price of nurglings, and you can only create up to four, while nurglings have no limit.
~Let's take a look at it. Nurglings= 3 pink horrors in price; only up to 4 pink horrors...useless...; and every model makes a T test with nurgle, not 2d6; and no armour saves against nurgle.
~What's up with that?
Personally, I don't use the last Tzeentch spell - my Lord of Change has all six spells, and I generally just ignore that last one, because yes, it's reasonably worthless, although I did once hold up three units for a few turns by making them unable to march with it.
As an overall lore? I think it depends too much on who you're versing. Against Ogres, Nurgle is a hell of a lot less effective, but against Goblins for example, when the high strength of Tzeentch spells is redundant, Nurgle is alot better.
Overall though, more armies have high toughness and/or armour, so I prefer Tzeentch, even if it is alot more random.
Creating more than 4 horrors has the potential to be impossibly bent. If you were able to start generating extra level 1 wizards for your army it would just be far too good.
Having an army and not owning a rulebook is like owning a car with no steering wheel.Originally Posted by amishcellphone
The Horrors created fromt the firestorm are nothing more than March Blockers. Rork is correct in what he is saying. Imagine all tzeentch popping up MORE wizards all over the place? That's a litle out of control.
I'd like to defend this spell, however, for a change. Here's what's going for it:
-Base Strength 5, so not being random, you know what it's gonna do, and it's strength is decent at that.
-2d6 hits is good
-New unit for march blocking created. It can also mess with warmachine crews, un-hide fanatics, etc...
-Longest range of the TZeentch spells. This is the big one for me. At least there's 1 spell with decent range you can hurt the enemy with.
The only real negative I see is the difficulty - the highest possible. Probably only deserved an 11-12, but all things considered, I think it's fine. Twin Heads helps here anyway.
Now, is Nurgle lore better? Hard to say really, they both do very different things. Nurgle has some great damage spells based on toughness, in combination with the level 1 spell to decline enemy stats. These bocome situational though. Zombies are good targets for nurgle.....but then Zombies are good targets for anything. Tzeentch pumps out mostly damage, with an added spell to steal an enemies spell....
The other thing you need to consider are the casters. Tzeenth wizards have the ability to gain all the Tz spells, but Nurgle cannot. Tzeencth can throw out houge amount of powerdice, Nurgle cannot. For this reason, the Tzeentch lore keeps it's nose in front, because sheer volume of spells will win the day, even assuming the Nurgle lore is 'Better'.
Anyway, rant over
Also, this only considers the highest spell in each lore. If you consider all the spell against thier equivalents, Tzeentch comes out on top by a land side. Nurgle is easier to cast, but the number of spells, powerdice, dispel dice, efficiency, and gifts supporting magic are also held by tzeentch. Nurgle cannot compete with tzeentch in magic.
nurgle spells overall is weaker but you can have a "better" setup in magic with nurgle... 3 L1 nurgle heralds with staff, one with hellfire banner, GUO with staff and as L4. That is 9PD/7DD/5 Bound spells... perhaps more devastating than tzeentch's LOC + 3 heralds setup.
Keep in mind that the power of a tzeentch list is not just in the heralds and LoC. Sure 3 heralds and a LoC give you 10 PD, but then you can add to that 3-4 PD per squad of horrors, or just bring 5-6 10 man squads of the horrors. That's when tzeentch gets the really nasty gobs of PD to funnel into some really powerful offensive margic. Tzeentch's magic overall is more powerful than Nurgle, simply by virtue or how many PD they can pump into any spell they want.
Oh, and they can take most of the same icons and upgrades to get bound spells with tzeentch too.
~2k of genestealery goodness
~1750points of terminator goodness
Dovie'andi se tovya sagain
more witty remarks to come.
Why even compare other big spells to Tzeentch's Firestorm? You could just treat the Lore of Tzeentch as though its Cadillac spell is #5 and you're good to go. 2d6 hits that are a minimum of S5 and a max of 10? That's pretty brutal, as you could utterly smash a small unit of skirmishers or something (or a war machine crew), could put a Steam Tank out of commission, if you roll a 3+ on the S a chariot is completely forfeit, or you could just hurt up a unit of really good armor save models. It's a completely vicious magic missile, and much more effective than Tzeentch's Firestorm in all ways except for the tiny march-blocking Horror unit.
IMO, it'd be a question sometimes as to whether to cast Bolt or Firestorm if Firestorm added the Horrors to an existing unit, but as it is I so far have not found a time when I've even considered casting FS over Bolt (and I've never been unhappy casting Bolt).