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  1. #1
    Member chosen40k's Avatar
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    Daemonic Cheese-How?

    Recently, I've heard that Fantasy Daemons can be competitive, unlike their 40k counterparts. Even more, I've heard that they are one of the top win-at-all-costs armies out there.

    So, how is this possible?

    Also, can someone please make a an all-out-win-at-all-costs-I-will-kill-you-list-that-will-be-likely-used-by-Kharn-and/or-Skulltaker-at-a-cheese-party type of list? (Prefferably Khornate)

    What makes that list so cheesy?



    Response is appreciated.

    When life gives you anything, charge it with Genestealers.

    Alarm clock? Genestealers.
    Your boss? Genestealers.
    The rednecks that cut in front of me at Wal-mart like I didn't have anything better to do than stand in line? Genestealers.

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  3. #2
    Cthulhu's Lovechild CBrate's Avatar
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    Daemons are steamrolling over the fantasy scene. Of course people are going to complain. Don't mind them, I'm sure a new rulebook will come and everyone will have somebody new to bitch at.
    And over there we have the labyrinth guards.
    One always lies, one always tells the truth, and one stabs people who ask tricky questions.
    http://xkcd.com/246

  4. #3
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    You can go magic heavy tzeentch cheese, wall of nurgle cheese, smash face cheese, leadership nuking cheese, pretty much you can run almost any combination of daemons and have a decent chance. Pick the models you like and go with it. The most common complained about things (from what I've seen) are: Greater Daemons (esp Bloodthirster and Lord of Change), Special Characters (Kairos, Blue Scribes, Skulltaker, Masque), minimum core (only have 'em 'cause you need to!), maxed out / duplicated characters, maxed/duplicate specials (flesh hounds), maxed/duplicate rare (6 flamers, 6 flamers!), a few other things too. Standard of Sundering comes to mind.

    Some people complain when you mix gods, some complain when you don't.

    Here you go, Khorne heavy cheese @ 2250. It could be better, I only took a minute or so to build it.

    Bloodthirster
    -Obsidian Armour
    -Immortal Fury
    -Firestorm Blade

    Herald of Khorne
    -Juggernaut
    -Firestorm Blade
    -Armour of Khorne
    -BSB
    -Standard of Sundering

    Skulltaker
    -Juggernaut

    16 Bloodletters (BSB goes here)
    -Full Command
    10 Pink Horrors
    10 Pink Horrors

    5 Flesh Hounds
    5 Flesh Hounds

    6 Flamers
    6 Flamers





  5. #4
    I've had enough! timk1111's Avatar
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    LIke any army, don't expect to plonk a Daemon list on the table and expect to win. Get into the wrong combat, and units just go poof. It's a n elite army with few units and you need to win the movement phase.

    However, when given to a half decent general, they are awesomely powerful.

    An optimaised Khorne list will usually contain: Bloodthirster, a Heradl or two on Juggers, Bloodletter core (obviously), maxed out Fleshhounds (so 4 units of 5) and maybe some Bloodcrushers if you can fit them in, or more bloodletters. It's the Hounds ands Bloodthirster that do it for you. They have High magic res, so with a Banner of Sundering, should do OK against magic, though an above average amount will still give you trouble.

    I'd also be careful of including too many flaming attacks on your chartacters. In the above list, most High Elf characters will eat those guys thanks to dragon armour, and there's others.

    If you're writing up a list, make sure you give units a purpose. For example, my Bloodthirster looks like:

    L - Bloodthirster - 550
    Awesome Strength, Immortal Fury

    Seen in a few lists out there, he is designed to take on Big monsters with little effort, and Cav that dont have a Ward (Brets or maybe VC's, for example). This guy tends to handle what the rest of the army can't, like a Star Dragon. There are two other optimal BT setups:

    L - Bloodthirster - 550
    Immortal Fury, Axe of Khorne, Obsidian Armour

    Designed to squish enemy characters, as well as anything that can regenerate. You can swap OA for Armour of Khorne if you wish. The next setup:

    L - Bloodthirster - 545
    Dark Insanity, Immortal Fury, Armour of Khorne

    This is a massed rank and file killer, through sheer number attacks, even if they are random. However, roll well enough, and he'll kill most things anyway.


  6. #5
    Advocatus Diaboli Rork's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by timk1111 View Post
    An optimaised Khorne list will usually contain: Bloodthirster, a Heradl or two on Juggers, Bloodletter core (obviously), maxed out Fleshhounds (so 4 units of 5) and maybe some Bloodcrushers if you can fit them in, or more bloodletters. It's the Hounds ands Bloodthirster that do it for you.
    I'd say that bloodcrushers are fairly poor. On paper they're good, but their 50mm bases just kills their effectiveness. I will eventually get around to replacing my 'crushers with a 2nd unit of Flesh Hounds - you end up with the same number of attacks and twice the wounds for the same points.

    L - Bloodthirster - 545
    Dark Insanity, Immortal Fury, Armour of Khorne

    This is a massed rank and file killer, through sheer number attacks, even if they are random. However, roll well enough, and he'll kill most things anyway.
    That's the version I use, and it's truly terrifying. I usually double-team mine with some flesh hounds, so even if he rolls badly for his attacks a combo of them and Immortal Fury means he is still devastating.

    He is one of the few models I have ever seen 'Make his points back' on a regular basis (A crass measure of effectiveness, but true none the less).


    Having an army and not owning a rulebook is like owning a car with no steering wheel.

    Quote Originally Posted by amishcellphone
    <3 rork. He does all the arguing so I don't have to.

  7. #6
    Member chosen40k's Avatar
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    Hounds, eh? Was wondering, what makes them so special?


    Thanks for the Khone list Kobo1d, includes some Tzeentch as well. I like it.

    Might try to build it.
    When life gives you anything, charge it with Genestealers.

    Alarm clock? Genestealers.
    Your boss? Genestealers.
    The rednecks that cut in front of me at Wal-mart like I didn't have anything better to do than stand in line? Genestealers.

    -40k Online

  8. #7
    Member Mr. Derp's Avatar
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    All you need to know about the hounds is right on their stat line. They're fast, tough, and when they connect (Which they often do, especially if you're running a herald with lore of shadows or beasts) they tend to rip things into bloody little shreds. On top of all of that, they even have magic resistance 3, making them virtualy immune to magic.
    I'm too lazy to come up with a witty sig.

  9. #8
    I've had enough! timk1111's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rork View Post
    I'd say that bloodcrushers are fairly poor. On paper they're good, but their 50mm bases just kills their effectiveness. I will eventually get around to replacing my 'crushers with a 2nd unit of Flesh Hounds - you end up with the same number of attacks and twice the wounds for the same points.


    Yeah, it was more after you 've spent the points on everything else you need. You can either go for extra Bloodletters, Or chuck in some Bloodcrushers as distraction units. Units of 1 or 2 could used to hunt mages, redirect units, or whatever...but only after the rest of the Army is built.

    I know what you're saying about Crushers - I was going to get a unit myself, but most people weren't having a huge amount of luck with them. I decided to get Fiends instead. I get to playwith them for the first time this Sunday, with a bit of luck

    Tim


  10. #9
    Kut Maar Krachtig Zema's Avatar
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    Daemonic cheese-how? Well, you would need to start with daemonic milk, i guess...
    Got a "good" rumour from a GW staffer? Forget about it, LO'ers know more than any random GW shop staffer.
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  11. #10
    Senior Member BlackSheep's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zemaphore View Post
    Daemonic cheese-how? Well, you would need to start with daemonic milk, i guess...
    Ha, Ha.
    No, I don't have any wool.

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