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I know very little about the new codex for Daemons both for Warhammer Fantasy and 40K. What are players opinions about this army and how it fares against various Fantasy armies? Are the lists varied or restrictive?
Also are they generally an easy army to collect and paint? Cost is a constraint and my painting skills aren't great!
Daemons right now are very powerful. They have alot of options and other players haven't yet figured out how to beat the new book. This will change in time. When HE came out everyone was crying about ASF and getting crushed by new HE lists. Now I don't hear as much about HE in terms of being overpowered.
As far as army lists go I think that they have one of the better selection pools that I have seen in an army book so far. You can make many different types of effective armies. Granted there are always the top tier of powerhouse units/combos but there are also other good options available if you play against players who scream "Cheese" on a regular basis.
As far as painting is concerned Daemons are also a good choice. As they are beings of Chaos, their forms can be everchanging, thus you can paint them however you wish. Want a Tzeentch themed army but want some Bloodletters for CC punch? Go ahead and paint them blue and purple. Tzeentch is the Changer of Ways after all. They also lack alot of detail that other "normal" models have such as small items on belts, multiple different pieces of clothing, stylized shields/armor, etc. that can make a novice painter cringe. Not to say that the models lack detail but I do find them easier to paint than some of my other armies such as Dark Elves.
The one downfall to the army is the cost. GW did their fairly typical two new plastic kits with the release of the new army. However, since Daemons previously had NO plastics, that is the only plastic kits there are. This does make collecting a Daemon army a bit cost prohibitive. On the plus side, since Warriors and Beasts of Chaos (and Chaos Space Marines in 40K) can no longer use Daemons in their armies, you may be able to find some people to buy some unused models off of fairly cheaply.
All in all I think that Daemons are a very good army. Nice models, not horribly difficult to paint, and very good battlefield results. If you can find a way to get past the cost factor I think it is definitely a great army to play.
Necronid summed it up well.
The army list itself is extremely varied, and you might find it hard to decide what to field! Even if we're talking mono-god themed lists, I've changed my mind so many times it's silly! There's a great mix of magic, combat, shooting, speed, resilience and anything else you could ever want.
If you want an army on the cheap, there's a few things to look at. First, to two plastic kits are Daemonettes and Bloodletters. and so you can form a solid core to the army cheaply. Also look at field a Greater Daemon or Daemon Prince - these two guys are VERY expensive points wise, and so the cash to points investment is good
Since the new Warriors Hounds are out in plastic, you could look at converting some Flesh Hounds too. Slap on some sort of Collar, give em a funky paint job and that's it.
The Plastic Chaos Spawn kit is also your friend, With the massive amount of pieces you get in the kit, they can easily be used a Fiends of Slaanesh, or Beasts of Nurgle. Beasts are more expensive points wise (by about double!) so the army builds up quicker, Fiends are nasty as hell though!
Furies aren't hard to convert either, usually, I use Beastmen Gors (left over form my Beasts army) and I've given them cardboard wings. Works a treat.
Dryads from the Wood elf range also make good Pink Horrors, or maybe even Plague Bearers if you can get some sort of slime effect going with PVA glue or something.
So it's tricks like that that get the armies cost down. I also have a mate that puts 3 Daemonettes on a 100x25 base, and fills the gaps with scenery and things, you can get 12 or 13 models out of a 10 model kit this way! You just make sure you keep a few spare on 25x25 bases, for when the unit takes casualties.
Painting is easy for this army. I got away with just inks, drybrushing and basic highlighting. Nothing fancy is needed at al for these guys
Hope that helps,
Well, I've only been collecting them and haven't had a chance to test them in battle, but my impressions:
1) Something for any level of painter. A beginner? Paint your bloodletters mechrite red and drybrush with blood red. Been painting for a while? Might want to try complex skin tones on daemonettes. Or maybe you're a god of painting... you could paint a tzeentch force pulsating with magic.
2) As I said, I haven't played, but the list seems to have something for everyone. Uber tough and slow... nurgle. Fast but fragile, but nonetheless deadly... slaanesh. A killy, frenzied force that leaves behind a trail of blood, but isn't extremely fast or extremely tough... khorne. Or my personal favourite, an army packing enough power and dispel dice to make even the hardiest slaan cower in a corner... tzeentch. I'm currently building an army that will have 15 power dice in 2k points, and it promises to be great fun.
3) Cost... depends. As mentioned, 35 quid will get you a greater daemon which will probably take up at least a third of your points, so that's an immediate cut in cost. The models are great too, for the most part... LoC is one of my favourite models to paint. As for your core, nurgle or tzeentch will be more expensive... unless you proxy. I don't like dryads as horrors, personally. Thankfully nurgle forces don't need big units, but tzeentch... you need either 10 in a unit, or 25, really, to make the most of the list. If you're going for slaanesh or khorne you're in for a treat... luvverly plastics.
Just a note... you'll never outnumber your opponents 2:1 unless you have a really screwed up list, so if that's your style, stick to skaven or summat.
However... something to bear in mind. Unless your opponent is really picky about square bases in 40k, a daemon army is two for the price of one. You might have to splash out on a soulgrinder and a daemon prince to make your 40k force effective, but the models are the same for both ranges, essentially.
Last edited by Fenrix; January 28th, 2009 at 12:06.
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Daemons are particularly tough in WFB, with most recent major tournaments ending with their top 10 almost exclusively populated with Vampire Counts and Daemons. They are, as noted, very malleable in their play style and can be counted on to dominate in several stages of the game reliably. Their version of crumble can be particularly effective, with the ability to lose in combat and still hold with no consequences with decent dice rolls.
In 40K, on the other had, Daemons are more of a middle of the pack choice, with Deep Strike rules that hamper them somewhat, and somewhat expensive troop options.