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I've now been playing Vampire Counts for like 4-5 years, I still like playing with them, but I've come to this point that I want to test something new. Therefore I've decided to start with Daemons. I have never seen them in action before or such, but I just like the bloodletter models so much. After reading a bit in the armybook, I noticed this army has some similarities with VC. Like the break tests and the immunity to pyschology & fear. But since I'm still playing with VC, I'd like to start small and try to get a list of 1500pts together and buy the models for it.
Now, I'd like some advice for this list. I've read a bit through the forum, and noticed that bloodletters with horrors seem to be the best core choices. You have some nice closecombatters & with the horror-units being treated as a wizard, you can get some extra magic.
My problem is, what to do with hero/special/rare choices. A herald for each core unit seems to be a good decission, but it seems there're no models made for them. Or do you just select a model in the unit to be the herald?
With those core choices, I think I'd need to buy like 20 bloodletters and 20 horrors. But what to do with the rest ^^;
VCs and Daemons? You're going to be very popular in your group
Bloodletters and Horrors are good Core picks. Horrors work great with or without a Herald, while Bloodletters are more dependant on Hatred and multiple attacks to get some kills. With Heralds, Plaguebearers are far and away the best Core unit, unkillable they are.
For Heralds themselves, convert from whatever you like. A lot of people just add bits and a fancy paintjob to a normal Daemon, while others go all out and make something really unique. A Khorne Herald should never be without his Jugger, and there's already a model for that.
To start, a Jugger Herald with 14 Bloodletters (going 6 wide) backed by some Horrors and a Tzeentch Herald will have a big nasty combat unit and some magic support. After that, add as needed. You can stick with the Khorne/Tzeentch theme or throw in units from the other gods as well.
thanks for the advice.
Can a herald on a juggernaut join a unit bloodletters?
yes it can
i like to put Armor of khorne and the firestorm blade on HoK when i do that
I've tried to get this list together, its 1489 pts and I used 3 gods, no idea if its a good idea.
14 bloodletters CH ST MU
armor of khorne
14 horrors CH ST MU
2 spell breaker
14 plaguebearers CH ST MU
stream of bile
standard seeping decay
5 flamers of tzeentch
Last edited by ebichu; February 16th, 2009 at 00:41.
Do note that your not suppose to post point values with your army list (copyright laws)
A strong start. Horrors aren't much good for fighting, either go for 10 (cheap dispel dice and spell) or go big with 30 (level 3 core, woot!). Drop the command groups and give your Herald Master of Sorcery.
Stream of Bile on a M4 model = bad idea. Palanquin, Noxiuous Vapors, Slime Trail is a nasty set up. Make him your BSB and add another PB for US20 and full ranks.
You may be a tad light on magic defense, but 4 DD and a scroll should be ok for now. Consider the Standard of Sundering if you want some extra protection.
first of all, doing the "starting small and see if I like it" thing for daemons isn't the best idea, as it is one of those armies that suffers at low points more than others. If things don't go well for you, I recommend sticking with them a bit more. now for you army list.
You've done a lot of good things here, stuff that most of us had to learn from experience (you have done your research). I don't like my plaguebearers to go without seeping decay either. I must admit there are a few things I would change.
First of all, you need to change your Herald of Tzeentch, cause it breaks the rules to have two spellbreakers on a single herald (You can't have more than 1 of the same gift on a herald, and spell breaker does not count as a scroll as defined by the WFR. Like ==me== mentioned ear;ier, I would also take away his bsb and give it to the herald. They make the best bsb in the army, if only because they're the least likely to die.
Now, this may sound like a big change, but I say ditch the hounds. For the record, I love hounds, my list has 2 units of them....mostly because it is not a good idea to have a single unit of hounds in your army. People do not like having MR3 cavalry to fight, but they certainly enjoy killing them because they lack that lovely +1 save cav usually sports. It will simply will be the first thing shot, killed, or ganged up on simply because it's a target and it will be alone out front because it's moving 4' a turn faster than any other unit (and those flamers ain't marchin'). They just don't fit in with the rest of the army, and that's over 1/10 of your armies value that could go to use elsewhere.
Some idea on what to do to those freed points-
- take those horros, ditch the command, and add some more so you get 2 units of ten. It's the daemonic equivalent to a unit of archers/gunmen. Plus it ups your magic defense, and daemon armies main weakness is MD.
- take tha herald, and make him fly. Give him MOS while your at it, and suddenly your army has the magic edge against most opponents at that level of game. If you want to keep a SB, give him a disc, but if your willing to part with it, take wings instead, makes him see 360, which is more useful than you think. Also, at this point value some armies won't have enough fast cav/flyers/ skirmishers to deal with march blocking properly. This means more turns shooting with those flamers. If they have none of these units, make him your general if you want.
- ditch stream of bile on your herald of nurgle. It actually does work as well as you think, but your PB unit isn't big enough yet to take the necessary charge to use it. Plus this low point level demands the right tools for the job, and it doesn't ignore armor saves that you might be going against. Make him a wizard, if only for the DD. Also, at least give him slime trail.. Daemons are ofetn outnumbered, and if one unit is going to be flank charged it will be these guys.
- consider a 6th flamer, of the units you have now, this one will likely be the one your army will depend on to win it for you.
Thanks for the advice!
And as my plan is to continue with daemon, no matter what, it wont be a problem for me to start small. Its just that I'm still a student, and I don't have the money to start right off with like 2500pts or so.
With all thanks to you advice, I've tried to create this new list:
14 bloodletters CH ST MU
armor of khorne
=> this will be my heavy CC unit
1 spell breaker
=> magic unit, I decided to put the herald in the unit because of the 4+ward
=> lvl 1 wiz
19 plaguebearers CH ST MU
standard seeping decay
=> supporting CC unit and should try to hold ground a long time (5+ward®en),
the BSB seems very useful to me for break tests
=> I dont know if these are a good choice, but they'll be a supporting unit,
either fly into flanks, get single character or warmachines
6 flamers of tzeentch
=> this seems to be an obvious choice, nice shooting & they can also be used as
extra CC supporting unit. No champ here cause I dont think the +1str is worth it.
I intend to start too. I got an army ready basically.
Herald of Khorne
full command - musician
Icon of Endless War
5 Flesh Hounds
5 Flesh Hounds
large number of models for daemons of that point total I think.