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Thread: Daemon Cheese

  1. #1
    Member jwh0142's Avatar
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    Daemon Cheese

    So I am switching from O&G and daemons seem like a blast, both model wise and game play. The issue I have is, will anyone want to play me? Iv seen lots of people being very angry about daemon list and I have never understood exactly what makes a cheese list. The only thing i can compare it to with my experience (O&G only) would be running Grimgor, or perhaps running a star dragon with HE, which is terrible to fight against, though that may be a O&G thing. So my question would be:

    What is it that makes a demon list cheesy?



    (I read back to page 5 on this forum, if this has been addressed and the link is convenient please just give me a forward link)


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    Torn ACL FTL ==Me=='s Avatar
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    Daemons are cheesy when they win

    But seriously, Daemons have a lot of advantages. Army wide ward saves, magical attacks, unbreakable, ITP, and a lot of very potent units and gifts. You've got mean stuff like Fateweaver, one of the best casters in the game, uber Plaguebearer anvils, the Bloodthirster, Flamers, Flesh Hounds, wizards for Core, nasty Slaanesh tricks, and the Sundering Banner (a nice "up yours" to magic armies).

    Daemons have a lot of viable builds, either specializing in one thing or a flexible mix. The biggest problem with the perception of cheese is that you can't fit all the good stuff into one army. Daemons are expensive.

    All in all, a very powerful army, but hardly broken.

    You'll run across of lot of people (and I use the term loosely) who will whine and moan about your army, marking you at 0 for sports without even seeing your list. If they want to have an ulcer over toy soldiers, let them, but don't allow them to spoil your fun.
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    Daemons and VC are the "Cheese" flavor of the month right now. That is because they have been given some new army-wide abilities that people have not faced yet so they don't know how to defend against it yet. Give it some time, another army book or two, and people will learn how to fight Daemons and move on to the newest "Cheese" army.

    Don't get me wrong, they are very powerful right now with many different ways to make a powerful list. I think that is another reason people cry "Cheese". They are used to seeing one, perhaps two, main builds per army as a "game-breaking" list. Daemons can create multiple strong builds.

    I think that another thing people tend to cry about is the spamability of the two armies. VC can cast the same spell 10 times in a magic phase if they want and Daemons can load up on the same powerful gifts for everybody that can take them(multiple Tzeentch Heralds w/ wings and Master of Sorcery for example).

    So, as ==Me== said, some people will cry about your army as soon as you tell them you play Daemons, without even seeing your list. Honestly, these are people you don't really want to play with anyway. Anyone who plays the game for fun and has the maturity to accept challenges will play you. Trust me, you will have much more fun playing with these kinds of people anyway, regardless of the army you choose.

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    Member Bennonator's Avatar
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    totally agree what is said by NecroNid
    and ==Me== as well

    what i want to add is:

    Daemon armies are really easy to max out and create "uber cheese"
    but it also works the other way around if you have so much choise why not build a themed army?! Mono god ie

    this way u will create an army that exels at 1 point and doesn't at the others
    this way u'll make a normal warhammer army because many warhammer armies work like this . i think daemons work like empire.. u can make a gunline army which is hated or u can create a cool fluff wise correct army with a certain strenght and weakness

    my advise for daemon players : Try to make a FUN list and then worry about its performence. make a army which has caracter fluff etc.

    your opponent will be like: HUH WHERE ARE THOSE FLAMES?!?! AND FLESHHOUDS ??!WHAT NO BLOODTHIRSTER???? u said DEAMONS right??

    then u say: take another look my friend this is a army which main goal is that it will be fun to play with!

    hopefully this will make sure ppl don't shout CHEESE when u say i play daemons..

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    then u say: take another look my friend this is a army which main goal is that it will be fun to play with!
    That is a very good attitude if you are playing for fun. If you want to enter tourneys or if you and your friends like to see who can crush who however, then you can create a very powerful Daemon list.

    When I posted my first army list one of the comments was something like "That is a Daemon list that I would not mind facing. It is not as cheesed out as most of them." Now I took that as a compliment but at the same time I have yet to lose with said list. It had no Kairos, no GD at all in fact, and no Flamers. i have since added some Flamers but taken out some Flesh Hounds and added Fiends. The list performs basically the same but it looks less powerful because people don't see the Fiends as broken as they do Hounds(not sure why on this but I'll take it).

    I play Daemons because I like Daemons. In 40K I used to play CSM with as few marines and as many demons as I could until they rewrote those books. That the army is powerful is just icing on the cake to me because I also (secondarily) like to win as well.

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    Junior Member ppnoir's Avatar
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    It's funny...

    Hi all,

    First post in the deamons chaos section of the forum, so hello to all.

    The arguments of the deamons players seem so funny some time. I wish you could see the truth. Do you really belive you when you said that deamons and VC are the chesse of the month?

    Do you rememeber when O&G was chessy last time? Or Dwarf? It's a fact that GW seems to have difficulties to make equal army book. I sure know the crap saying that each army have their weakness, but each army don't have the same amount of weakness. That's the problem!

    It's true that deamons and VC are fun army. I'm myself a VC player from around 10 years now and it's very easy to do a list that the average people won't be able to fought. You are always talking about finding good player who loves to have comptetion. But when the competition isn't fair, you won't have fun playing.

    I also understand that deamons are cool and that many people choose them before even learning the rules. So this is why I like to play against them. I know that they are going to be hard but I will do my best to fight them.

    Anyway I was just trying to say that the army are not creating eqally. That's a fact. Sure the chesse effect can explain a little bit that, but I'M wondering if the Warriors of Chaos and the lizardman are going to be the next chesse army. After all, if we fellow your explication, they are going to be the next chesse armies.

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    Member Bennonator's Avatar
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    well the new lizardmen have become stronger with the new army book
    and i don't want to face a army with 3 or more stegadons running around!
    with unlimited power dice mages and other special rules

    dont know much about the new WoC tho..

    lizardmen could be the next cheese army

  9. #8
    Torn ACL FTL ==Me=='s Avatar
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    Now if you'll excuse ==Me==, I have some kittens to drown.
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    /botnobot/ DavidWC09's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NecroNid View Post
    Daemons and VC are the "Cheese" flavor of the month right now. That is because they have been given some new army-wide abilities that people have not faced yet so they don't know how to defend against it yet. Give it some time, another army book or two, and people will learn how to fight Daemons and move on to the newest "Cheese" army.

    Don't get me wrong, they are very powerful right now with many different ways to make a powerful list. I think that is another reason people cry "Cheese". They are used to seeing one, perhaps two, main builds per army as a "game-breaking" list. Daemons can create multiple strong builds.

    I think that another thing people tend to cry about is the spamability of the two armies. VC can cast the same spell 10 times in a magic phase if they want and Daemons can load up on the same powerful gifts for everybody that can take them(multiple Tzeentch Heralds w/ wings and Master of Sorcery for example).

    So, as ==Me== said, some people will cry about your army as soon as you tell them you play Daemons, without even seeing your list. Honestly, these are people you don't really want to play with anyway. Anyone who plays the game for fun and has the maturity to accept challenges will play you. Trust me, you will have much more fun playing with these kinds of people anyway, regardless of the army you choose.
    I think that both VC and DoC have been out long enough for gamers to have ample experience with and against them. I think it's telling that GT's around the globe are moving to tiered systems with VC and DoC at the top. And tourneys that do stringent comp are hitting these armies hard for a reason.
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    Member Cougmeister's Avatar
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    well the new lizardmen have become stronger with the new army book
    and i don't want to face a army with 3 or more stegadons running around!
    with unlimited power dice mages and other special rules

    dont know much about the new WoC tho..

    lizardmen could be the next cheese army
    Slaan can miscast though so unlimited dice isn't as good as you think. With 3 Steggies that would be nearly half the points of a 2k force not including characters, pretty easy to swarm them. Lizzies didn't become much more powerful in their new book.

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