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I'm a 40K player looking to expand a bit so I can play Fantasy. Instead of buying a fantasy only army it's tempting for me to go Daemons, as they can play in Fantasy and 40K, so I could play them in either case as I grow the force.
The question is if such a thing is really viable. There aren't too many restrictions on the 40K side. But the most notable is that I could only use two lord/general models. (So like a greater daemon, and heral, and that's it). Since it seems like those sort of characters are critical in Fantasy I'm not sure how well that'll work.
In any case do you think Daemons are playble by someone experienced in 40K but new to Fantasy?
Short answer is yes.
Daemons in Fantasy are one of the more powerful armies at this time. They are very forgiving so a new player will be able to make some mistakes and still compete. There are some significant differences in the army across the systems so there are some things to get used to and some units are better in one system than the other. Greater Deamons are much harder to wound in Fantasy than 40K because of the lack of high strength attacks but they are considerably more points because of this. Furies are rarely seen in 40K but are almost a staple in Fantasy lists because of their speed and versatility. So it will take some rethinking and reworking of your list but it is very viable.
Glad to hear the army doesn't suck (at the moment) in Fantasy.
The worrying thing about the army lists is that they seem to heavily feature lords choices.
Whereas if I'm trying to have a force that can go both ways I'd likely only have a single Herald at 1000 points. (Than probably some flamers, some "special" likely screamers or furies, and then core choices filling out the rest of the points).
Am I shooting myself in the foot too much that way?
Surprisingly enough, DoC are one of the better armies out there and you don't even need to field a Lord, a Hero (Herald) though is a must. But even in the 2000 point games that I play I very, very rarely ever field a Lord.
So there is no need to worry about having to field a Herald for both systems, in my opinion Heralds are the way to go, though I would recommend that you field more then one especially in Fantasy.
I didn't phrase that quite right. I can only have two models that would be lords or heros. I.e. I could have a herald and a GD. But I couldn't have 3 Heralds. And since I'd probably like a GD at 2000 points I'd try to get away with a single Herald at 1000 and below.
Actually if I understand correctly daemon princes are heros in Fantasy but heavy support in 40K so I could add more of those. But people say they suck in Fantasy.
Also could I "build up". I.e. could I reasonably play a 500 point list consisting of something like
Tzeentch herald w chariot
Some other demon core choice
some flamers if they'll fit.
Or do demons not really play until you've hit some point level?
Last edited by sunnyside; July 6th, 2009 at 04:12.
I am not quite understanding this. Is this a self-imposed restriction? In Fantasy, at 2000 pts., the rules are 1 Lord and up to 3 Heralds or 4 Heralds and no Lord.I can only have two models that would be lords or heros. I.e. I could have a herald and a GD. But I couldn't have 3 Heralds. And since I'd probably like a GD at 2000 points I'd try to get away with a single Herald at 1000 and below.
If you are trying to run the exact same list in both Fantasy and 40K I think you will run into some trouble. As I said previously, the units do not perform the same in both systems. But, as there currently are no Herald models(except Khorne on Jug.), you can use other models for your Heralds in Fantasy. Heralds add quite a bit to core choices in Fantasy. Plaguebearers are not a very good stand-alone choice. But add in a Herald and now you have a very good anvil unit. Herald of Khorne really help out Bloodletters because they only have one attack each. Hatred allows them to make the most of them.
Generally I use 4 Heralds and no Lords in my 2000 pt. list. I find them to be a better value for the points and I can tool up a Herald to be able to take on most Lord choices out there anyway.I wouldn't say that they suck, just that GD's are generally better for a bit higher cost. One of the main drawbacks to a DP is that it is not US 5+ like GD's are. This means that a Bloodthirster or Keeper that hits an opponents flank will negate their rank bonus where a DP will not. That is one key to winning combats vs. a ranked unit. DP's are a bit more customizable and about 100 pts. or so cheaper than a GD so they do have their own plusses.Actually if I understand correctly daemon princes are heros in Fantasy but heavy support in 40K so I could add more of those. But people say they suck in Fantasy.
A DP is a Lord in Fantasy not a Hero. Also as far as them "sucking" in fantasy, it all depends on how you equip them and field them.Actually if I understand correctly daemon princes are heros in Fantasy but heavy support in 40K so I could add more of those. But people say they suck in Fantasy.
I personally feel that a DP is a better way to go for fielding a Lord, over a GD. Yeah you don't get all the cool stuff compared to GDs but a DP can rival just about any Lord choice in fantasy at the moment. A DP is also cheaper then a GD. So you end up saving a few points in the process.
If you are going to field a DP just take your time understand what daemonic gifts go well with each other and what you want your DP to do.
Also in 40k just so you know daemon can have 2 greater daemons or 4 heralds as their hq choices.
As for having an army for both systems you will have some units that you use in one and not in the other.
I play khorne / tzeentch for both although I only really get to use like half my models either way, as my 40k army doesn't use the hounds or herald models and my fantasy army doesn't use the 3 daemon princes, bloodcrushers or the lord or change.
If you are wanting to have an army that use the exact same models for both games I feel your list will be very weak in both as GW seems to have made 1/3 of the units decent in both, 1/3 awesome in 40k and 1/3 awesome in fantasy. Best example is Bloodcrushers and hounds, the bloodcrusher are IMO one of the best buy units point for point in 40k but one of the worst in fantasy. Like wise hounds are great in fantasy but have almost no place in 40k unless doing mono khorne and even then just one if at all.
If you are dead set on doing it that way though mono tzeentch is gonna be your best bet as they are the only one in 40k that can do ok without soulgrinder / daemon princes.
- You must set fire to water or you will be extinguished.
Well, it sounds like I can't really have a list that plays well in both. So I'll focus on the Fantasy side of things. Since I've already got a solid Eldar 40K army.
Plus I think I've got a fun way to do Tzeentch Heralds.
Given that, I'm thinking of getting started with something roughly along the lines of:
3 Tzeentch Heralds (seems popular loadouts for them cost 160 points)
20 pink horrers (Seems like a group of 20 would be good, and they suggest that size on the GW "getting started" thing, but in the army lists here it appears people prefir 2 groups of 10 over one group of 20 )
Anyway that plus one other something. What would you suggest? Since I'm thinking Tzeentch heralds as opposed to other heralds maybe go with Chaos furies to march block and take out little squads or war machines? Or maybe a "specials" choice if I use two units of 10 horrers?
General tactics would be to scoot around the fairly open board tossing ranged attacks/spells until the time comes to hopefully land some flank charges or at least charges on weakened units.
Anyway if that seems good I'll consider specifics a bit and move this into the army section.
Unless someone shows up with an ingenious idea for an army that plays great in both.
Last edited by sunnyside; July 7th, 2009 at 03:11.