Are Daemons Cheesy?

[aounfather]

Hey Guys,
I have been having an interesting problem with Daemons lately. I've only played about 8 games so far and recently played in my first tourney (2/1 not bad) but everyone I played against and when I put my battle report up I was accused of being cheesy because of using Daemons. It wasn't my army list that people didn't like it was the army itself.

Now I don't quite understand. Daemons have huge weaknesses compared to other armies just because of the base cost of their units. I have been incredibly outnumbered versus Brettonians! I don't know what to do against horde yet.

So how should I respond to people who say that the army itself is cheesy when I am just getting started on learning how to play?

Also what makes the army cheesy?
Strengths?
Weaknesses?
Thanks,
Aounfather

[Orkbert]

Maybe not outright cheesy, but very cheap for what they get: 5+ ward save, causing fear, immune to psychology, magical attacks plus whatever special peeves the respective demon has for only a bit more than twice the cost of a regular human (not to mention the locust granted if a herald is in the unit)

I know immune to psychology can be a bit of a two-edged sword (and with them causing fear not really much needed) but it's not really a drawback.
And even the demonic instability is rather advantageous and not a problem: losing some extra models due to bad rolls but still being in the fight is better than breaking and being destroyed by a pursuing unit.
Given enough models, a demon unit can stop any charge (and trap the foolish opponent in a deadly counter-charge)

I don't know what to do against horde yet.

Kill them. Demons have the needed profile values to cope with them (Daemonettes vs toughness3 infantry, Bloodletters vs toughness4)

Although Demons aren't alone in the cheesy spotlight: Vampire Counts and supposedly Dark Elves (though I have yet to meet the latter in games) are similarly easy to win with.

[Dr. Paris]

I've got a 40k Daemon army, but I also on the fantasy book. Why are pink horrors considered so powerful in fantasy exactly? Is it the power dice they grant? All the army lists I see have 3x10 pink horror units.

[Rork]

The units are cheap and their magic missile is a good way to draw out dispel dice given how random it is. And that randomness can really hurt some units when you roll high.

[chumplo45]

Im gonna say no on this for sure. My buddy at the shop runs a High Elf army and recently went 4-0 at a tourney ALL MASSACRES. Its all about how you play your army and how you respond to your opponents strategy. Im a noob but Ive already gleaned that much...

[Rork]

Im gonna say no on this for sure. My buddy at the shop runs a High Elf army and recently went 4-0 at a tourney ALL MASSACRES. Its all about how you play your army and how you respond to your opponents strategy. Im a noob but Ive already gleaned that much...

You're using faulty induction there.

Sure, other armies can win. However, daemons can build armies that can cripple pretty much anything out there in an unrestricted environment. They still require skill to use, but they are more forgiving than most and have some incredibly powerful choices.

The right daemon army in the hands of the right player can be near invincible. That an army like High Elves can win does not negate the fact that Daemons (or Dark Elves) tend to take the lion's share of the victories.

[Dr. Paris]

So are there a few common builds that are especially nasty?

It looks like, from the forum, a Tzeentch heavy army, anything on a Juggernaut, or anygreater daemon are all real game winners as long as you use some decent tactics.

[Rork]

So are there a few common builds that are especially nasty?

It looks like, from the forum, a Tzeentch heavy army, anything on a Juggernaut, or anygreater daemon are all real game winners as long as you use some decent tactics.

You can usually play connect the dots with these:

Bloodthirster
or
Keeper of Secrets
or
Kairos

Masque
or
Blue Scribes
or
Herald of Nurgle on palanquin (often BSB )
or
Herald of Tzeentch
(sometimes doubled)
or
Herald of Khorne on Juggernaut

Plaguebearer blocks
or
Multiple units of 10 horrors

Furies

A bazillion units of Flesh Hounds (On a scale of 1 unit: "Fetch!", 2: "Bad dog!"; 3: "Down, boy!"; 4: "CUJO")

Flamers
or
More Flamers

Beast of Nurgle
or
Fiend of Slaanesh
(If you're feeling generous)

That comes close to the Daemon Army Builder (if not perfectly).

[Dr. Paris]

And I take it if I want to take my 40k Daemon army and transition it to Fantasy to play for fun with my friends, just don't field any of the above (or don't take them in a min maxed way, like 30x1 unit of horrors in stead of 3x10 units of horrors, putting a nasty magic standard with my PBs), and I'll still have that's still fun to play with and against without being overpowered?

[aounfather]

I feel bad. I bought tzeentch before I read the rules because I liked their fluff. Not because I wanted an overpowered army. And the combination of units you put up top there is essentially my army. No wonder its called Cheesy. Guess I'll scrap the whole thing for... well you pretty much said eveything in the army book. So where does that leave me?

According to the list above...its all cheese.