Gettin bored... wish i hadnt seen the old books - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
    Junior Member corroded's Avatar
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    Gettin bored... wish i hadnt seen the old books

    So I was talking to a buddy the other day about how Daemons are kind of gettin bland after two years of running the same 11 freakin units (Still dont have Seekers).

    Ever since I started WM Fantasy I've loved the Chaos factions, but daemons just felt all too small, no choices compared to the other books, and after seeing the WoC book, I got alot of variety envy.

    So I was throwing out all these unit ideas that I couldn't understand why we dont have, and he says "Yeah, like in the Storm of Chaos book" ... huh? So I look it up-

    And there it is... all the units I've thought about, that you expect to see, would mix it up and keep my armies actually varied. So many options, Chariots, Cav, Flyers...


    So what happened? Why the mass exodus of all these units?

    Now before this ends let me say: Ive no complaints about my army strength- just options. In my two years of playing Ive never lost a game- if anything I think we need a huge nerf already, just when you do it give me more damn units to use


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  3. #2
    This is for the haters... CrownAxe's Avatar
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    We have everything

    Chariots, both forms of calvery, flying units, tarpits, flankers, swarms, big monsters, wizards, blocks

    It sounds more like you haven't bothered writing a new list or tried different units

  4. #3
    It's what's for dinner daelrog's Avatar
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    Could you provide an example to what you would want? Excluding special characters, daemons have...

    5 Lord Choices
    4 Hero Choices, each w/ a choice of mount or chariot
    5 Troop Choices
    4 Special Choices
    4 Rare Choices

    Total: 22

    That's more than most army books, in the character category, and is certainly up there with the other troop selction areas as well.

    However, if you go for just one god, then yeah, it's limited. Then again, that can be said about other themed armies from other books.
    I am heading off to the Peace Corps. It is bery likely I will not be back. Good luck to all of you endeavors.

  5. #4
    Junior Member corroded's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrownAxe View Post
    We have everything

    Chariots, both forms of calvery, flying units, tarpits, flankers, swarms, big monsters, wizards, blocks

    It sounds more like you haven't bothered writing a new list or tried different units
    Lists? I own Over 60 or better every Core, 20 hounds, 10 Nurgling base, 9 Screamers, 15 Flamers, At least 2 of each lord type, too many hero conversions on mounts/chariots to count, 7 bloodcrushers, 4 Nurgle Beasts and 6 fiends O_o

    However with all that, the only thing we have options to change are in our characters- no unit options what so ever, less which banner or Icon, no Warmachines, and Chariots and gifts are all only Hearld specific.


    An answer to your question- is just more variety, Stand alone chariots for each god, other units like the plagueriders and such, a single choice for each god in each category is not alot of selection.
    I big on varety. It's just i see at one point the faction had alot of choices avail in this regard, its too bad it got whittled down so much.

    In the end i should have just checked out more of the army books before i jumped in so big i suppose. It just feels like Im playing Necrons all over again lol
    Last edited by corroded; January 29th, 2010 at 00:23. Reason: .... incredible lack of vowels...

  6. #5
    This is for the haters... CrownAxe's Avatar
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    What more do you want?

    DoC has a ton of different play styles and units. I can't comprehend how you find the army stagnent (And I play Necrons, DoC is a huge step in being a dynamic army)

  7. #6
    It's what's for dinner daelrog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by corroded View Post
    Lists? I own Over 60 or better every Core, 20 hounds, 10 Nurgling base, 9 Screamers, 15 Flamers, At least 2 of each lord type, too many hero conversions on mounts/chariots to count, 7 bloodcrushers, 4 Nurgle Beasts and 6 fiends O_o

    However with all that, the only thing we have options to change are in our characters- no unit options what so ever, less which banner or Icon, no Warmachines, and Chariots and gifts are all only Hearld specific.


    An answer to your question- is just more variety, Stand alone chariots for each god, other units like the plagueriders and such, a single choice for each god in each category is not alot of selection.
    I big on varety. It's just i see at one point the faction had alot of choices avail in this regard, its too bad it got whittled down so much.

    In the end i should have just checked out more of the army books before i jumped in so big i suppose. It just feels like Im playing Necrons all over again lol
    To be honest, you're request is unreasonbale. I'll break it down...
    1) "No unit options whatsoever"
    This could mean different things, so I'll tackle each one. It has five core choices, certainly the match of anything. Most the units can have a magic standard, whislt the ones that don't are mosnters, skirmishers, and swarms. Are you looking to arm some daemons with crossbows other with hand weapon and shield, and other with great weapons. The units themselves take on the role of these different weapon builds. They're daemons after all, and are more prone to fight with tooth and claw.
    2)"Banners"
    Daemons are tied with the msot amount of standards along with dwarfs. Additionally, different daemon units can take the same standard. I'm sorry, but this complaint holds no wait. True, most units are constrained between a choice of two banners. In other armis, core units have no selection. Even elite units don't have that much more to choose from.
    3) "No warmachines"
    I fell like dismissing this ne completely off, but feel obligated to respond. Warmachines are the edge other armies have over daemons. No army has everything. Daemons don't get warmachines. Each army is lacking in one of the main ingredients that other armies have, if not more. Warmachines is the last thing they'd get. Any nerfing that could be done to the daemons would be offset.
    (And besides, you already have a stone thrower in Kugath)
    4) Chariots only for Heralds
    Many armies don't have chariots. Some chariots simply aren't worth taking in other armies. If three chariots in a 2,00o point army isn't good enough because your opponent can field 4 in theirspecial choice selection, I don't know what to tell you. It sounds like in the case of chariots you can have them if you want, you just want chariots AND heroes to do other things. Once again question if the army can be nerfed, and kept weaker if suddenly players don't have to sacrifice another role a hero could fill in order to get a chariot.
    5) Plagueriders
    Sounds okay to me. No problem there.
    6) a single choice for each god in each category is not alot of selection
    Hopefully the rest of what I've sad has prven this to be wrong. Check out other army books. You'll see it's not the case. Daemons may appear to have smaller choices just because it's easy to divide the army book into four, and see it that way, not all armies have that benefit.

    The previosu book did have more options, but t's like comparing a mountain to another mountain when there are still hills that need to be raised.
    I am heading off to the Peace Corps. It is bery likely I will not be back. Good luck to all of you endeavors.

  8. #7
    Organised Chaos saltrock36's Avatar
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    Lets face it, you dont need to be a great general with daemons to get alot of good results in games due to so many good points, and my guess is that its not the unit choices your having a real problem with but more likely that your not getting to experiance all highs and lows in warhammer, i.e. getting that unit of yours to rally.

    You talk about diversity of unit choices like chariots and warmachines, frankly the only two things daemons are missing and in the case of chariots heroes as already stated to you can be character mounts. Do you not think woodelves think to themselves that they sometimes might like a boltthrower like other elves or dwarves wishing they had some cavalry or skirmishers some times to sweep up the flanks of thier massed infanty? The thing which binds daemons unlike most armies is just thier background for being daemons. Where as other armies have a style of play due to thier racial traits, you can tool a daemon list to forfill just about any desire.

    No matter what your flavour you have either solid block units, units amazing in combat, spell casting units!!! and this is just your core! O.K, so you dont have absolutly everything you used to have in SoC, but its not like you need it, and if it bothers you that much, convert yourself some models and ask your opponent if its ok for you to use them in the/a game.

    Sounds to me like a case of someone who has been so spoilt for choice that they dont realise what they actualy have.

  9. #8
    Junior Member corroded's Avatar
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    Alot of you alls points are good ones, And I agree that alot of the unit options like different equip load outs are simply fullfilled by taking different choices.

    So i guess honestly it just feels more limiting than it actually is to me... of which I gotta figure out myself I suppose

  10. #9
    Organised Chaos saltrock36's Avatar
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    I think i get where your coming from though. effectivly for core you have two choices, the furries which have fly, and then 4 core that are the equivalent of equiping the same unit in 4 different ways. I.e. dwarf warriors, naked, with a shield, great weapons, greatweapons and shields, so although the dameon units are visibly differnt in rules and abilities you are stuck with what you have in that way in that a bloodletter will always be...a bloodletter.

    Special and rare you get a bit more choice and same with the rear but i can see how you pretty much just exchange flesh hounds for an equal size unit of screamers or flamers etc. so i can see what you mean as although dameons can be tailored to fit any slot its just not got the small details of choice which allows some uniqueness in other armies.

  11. #10
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    I think saltrock pretty much hit the nail on the head. its not that there arent enough units to choose from, its that those units are so 1 dimensional. also i found playing DoC that they were just too powerful. its hard to find an army interesting when i kept winning.

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