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View Poll Results: What Lore do you play on your Heralds of Tzeentch with Master of Sorcery?

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  • Lore of Light

    8 11.43%
  • Lore of Life

    32 45.71%
  • Lore of Heavens

    1 1.43%
  • Lore of Metal

    4 5.71%
  • Lore of Beasts

    3 4.29%
  • Lore of Shadow

    17 24.29%
  • Lore of Fire

    1 1.43%
  • Lore of Death

    4 5.71%
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  1. #1
    resident iconoclast Left of West's Avatar
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    What's the best Lore of Magic (in eighth edition?)

    So, there is another thread titled "What's your favorite lore with master of sorc?" It's a good thread. It gets a lot of hits. But, it was posted about a month before eighth edition--and if eighth edition did one thing, it changed magic. A lot. All eight basic lores got a total revamp, in addition to the overhaul of the magic system itself.

    Unfortunately, this means that a poll with a large number of pre-eighth votes just isn't really a good indicator of anything, anymore. I think we need a new one, and, so, here it is.

    Which of the eight basic lores do you take on your casters?

    When voting in the poll, the question is this: Which of the eight basic lores do you play on your Heralds of Tzeentch with Master of Sorcery.

    Note that Lore of Tzeentch isn't an option: MoS doesn't give you loremaster for Lore of Tzeentch, and you pick your lore when writing your list--so you won't have a MoS herald with Lore of Tzeentch.

    If you choose to respond to the thread, I'd be interested in your opinion on other magic-related issues. Specifically:

    Do you play Master of Sorcery on your Lords of Change (given that they have Loremaster for the Lore of Tzeentch by default) and, if so, what lore do you choose for them?

    and

    What spells do you like to play on your Kairos Fateweaver?

    Thanks for your responses!

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Personally, I voted for Beasts. I think Lore of Life is probably the most powerful, right now, but I generally play the Great Standard of Sundering, (in a magic-light list where one MoS Herald is my only caster) and I expect to have to sunder life frequently, so I decided to go for something else. Beasts has a pretty good gun spell in Amber Spear, an very solid combat buff (+1s and +1t to a unit) and one of the best hexes in the game (-1 on rolls to hit and moves as if through dangerous terrain and fails dangerous terrain rolls on a 1 or 2). Its two character buffs (one gives +3t, the other +3s and +3a) are gold on my Bloodthirster and even more so on my Heralds of Khorne. The other two spells are a little lack-luster: 2d6 s2 hits is a pretty poor gun spell, and turning into a dragon, while hilarious, isn't really reliable enough to warrant charging with your Herald before you see whether it goes off--and if you put it out ahead of time, they can dispel it at its base casting value on their turn before you get to use it.

    I also like metal against high armor armies, life (as I said) and heavens is also decent, with a good array of guns, hexes, and augments (just not ones that I like as much as the ones from beasts).

    Light has a couple of good buffs, but isn't very impressive otherwise;
    Shadow has some good hexes, but isn't very versatile;
    Death has some good assassination spells (and purple sun is, on occasion, hilarious) but again not very versatile;
    Fire is just terrible;

    For Fateweave, it depends a lot on whether I'm going to sunder Life. If not, I'll likely take all life spells on the 'good' head: Throne of Vines, Dwellers Below, Regrowth, and the one that gives a unit a toughness bonus. If I am going to sunder life, I'll probably take Final Transmutation from Metal, Speed of Light (great on bloodletters) and probably the paired hex/augment spells from heavens.

    For the bad head, I like Fate of Bjuna from Death, the unit augment and hex from Beasts, and maybe a hex from shadow, Amber Spear, or Purple Sun (though with the full Lore of Tzeentch, Fateweaver doesn't really need more gun spells).

    Last edited by Left of West; February 1st, 2011 at 20:27. Reason: added my responses to my own questions
    Once again, the conservative, sandwich-heavy portfolio pays off for the hungry investor!

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  3. #2
    The Future realitycheque's Avatar
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    Lore of Life is probably the most powerful in the game. Bring back models from the dead, add to the toughness of the unit, prevent the first miscast each turn and for each spell that works, regain a wound on a nearby character. Absolutely fantastic, whoever you are.
    My Deathwatch Campaign
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  4. #3
    resident iconoclast Left of West's Avatar
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    I definitely agree, realitycheque. I just edited my own picks and rationale into my initial post, and explained why I didn't vote for life, but I generally agree that it is the most powerful.
    Once again, the conservative, sandwich-heavy portfolio pays off for the hungry investor!

  5. #4
    LO Zealot mynameisgrax's Avatar
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    After going over things quite a bit, I have to say that the best lores are: life, death, and shadow

    Beasts falls a little short because it's 'big' spell can be easily dispelled in future turns, and usually does nothing the turn its cast (unless your wizard is already in close combat).

    None of the other lores (metal, light, heavens, and fire) are anything special.

    Life and Death are very easily exploited to great effect: life by bringing back dead troops and death by constantly generating power dice, and both have a super spell that can easily shift the game in your favor with a single casting.

    Regardless, my favorite is Shadow. It has two extremely good spells (pit of shades and mind razor) and unlike life and death, every spell in the lore is useful. That way, you can give lore of shadow to a 2nd level wizard, get 2 random spells, and always have a useful combination.

    The armies that do better with the lores of life and death are the armies that can automatically get every spell in the lore when they choose it (Vampire Counts, Chaos Daemons, and I believe also Lizardmen and High Elves). That way you're guaranteed to get the spells you really need.

    So with Chaos Daemons, I say Life, Death, and Shadow are the best. Any of them will do nicely.
    Last edited by mynameisgrax; February 1st, 2011 at 22:26.
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  6. #5
    The Future realitycheque's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynameisgrax View Post
    High Elves
    Sadly only Teclis is Loremaster
    My Deathwatch Campaign
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  7. #6
    LO Zealot mynameisgrax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by realitycheque View Post
    Sadly only Teclis is Loremaster
    So yeah, ALL High Elf armies then. ^_^
    "Any job worth doing, is worth doing with a powerklaw."
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  8. #7
    resident iconoclast Left of West's Avatar
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    Shadows is pretty good. Miasma and the other two hexes are good, as is Pit of Shades. Steed is neat utility, but Penumbral Pendulum is basically worse than Amber Spear, and Mindrazor is worse than Wildform on Bloodletters (and similarly good the other common Daemons targets). Curse of Anraheir is basically as good as any of the Shadow hexes (though big version Miasma might be better). I may give shadows a shot, though. I didn't really realize that Miasma could be so good, honestly--hitting all four attributes is pretty brutal--and Shades is certainly a better "big" spell than Transformation (which is, as you note, not very good at all).

    Life, of course, is great.

    I don't really get Death, though. Three short-ranged, direct damage sniper spells which are basically redundant with each other, one spell that doesn't do anything for Daemons at all, a marginal hex, a pretty solid hex, and one decent big spell. I mean sure, you occasionally get dice back, but the only spells that do damage are the sniper spells (which don't do a ton and are hard to get into position to use) and Purple Sun.

    I mean, basically you're getting Purple Sun and Soul-blight, with an occasional Fate of Bjuna or Doom and Darkness tossed in. I'd rather have Wildform and Curse, with an occasional Pelt, Beast of Horrors, or Amber Spear tossed in.
    Last edited by Left of West; February 1st, 2011 at 23:17.
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  9. #8
    The Future realitycheque's Avatar
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    Miasma is awesome

    "see your big block of scary dudes?"
    *miasma*
    *strong breeze*
    "oh where did they go?

    Lol
    My Deathwatch Campaign
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  10. #9
    Son of LO
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    considering your tzeentch herald is going to be in a block of horrors 99% of the time, life hands down is best... (unless of corse you're sundering it with the banner!)
    the fact is though, gaining high toughness & near-immunity to miscasts on a unit that already comes with a 4+ ward save means that unit is going to hang around all damn day! life also nets you the shield of thorns, which when combined with a banner of change can get you a possible total of 5D6/S4 hits per turn on any unit in base contact! (or even *just* 2D6/S3 + 3D6/S4!) so that unit of combat lacking horrors can utterly rape anyone they face before blows are even struck...

    i also really enjoy lore of metal too. if i run a herald in a big unit of flamers, glittering cloack adds some missile protection, while enchanted blades just makes an already over-powered unit into something that really should likely never see the light of day! (7D6, S4, +1 to-hit & armour peircing is just so wrong...)

    light can also be nifty too if you want to surprise your opponent. (as most players assume MoS = life on ranked units). but tossing in light magic can turn a big hoard of pinkies into decent fighters with speed of light & timewarp... mind you, those spells are easily better off on a unit of bloodletters/crushers, but in a pinch, they also work to help buff the pinkies too.

    cheers!

  11. #10
    Son of LO ikbuh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by experiment 626 View Post
    considering your tzeentch herald is going to be in a block of horrors 99% of the time, life hands down is best... (unless of corse you're sundering it with the banner!)
    the fact is though, gaining high toughness & near-immunity to miscasts on a unit that already comes with a 4+ ward save means that unit is going to hang around all damn day! life also nets you the shield of thorns, which when combined with a banner of change can get you a possible total of 5D6/S4 hits per turn on any unit in base contact! (or even *just* 2D6/S3 + 3D6/S4!) so that unit of combat lacking horrors can utterly rape anyone they face before blows are even struck...

    Don't forget Gift of change for another d6/d6 hits =D

    i also really enjoy lore of metal too. if i run a herald in a big unit of flamers, glittering cloack adds some missile protection, while enchanted blades just makes an already over-powered unit into something that really should likely never see the light of day! (7D6, S4, +1 to-hit & armour peircing is just so wrong...)

    light can also be nifty too if you want to surprise your opponent. (as most players assume MoS = life on ranked units). but tossing in light magic can turn a big hoard of pinkies into decent fighters with speed of light & timewarp... mind you, those spells are easily better off on a unit of bloodletters/crushers, but in a pinch, they also work to help buff the pinkies too.

    Speed of Light on Plaguebearers is the best. Turbo Poison!

    cheers!
    All in all, Life is probably the strongest lore in the game right now because of the hordes metagame, and T7 pinkies with a 4+ wardsave is well... silly.

    Death for Daemons is very powerful on a suicide Tzerald aka flying up a big unit and spamming dice into purple sun hoping to explode into a dangerous miscast. Worst comes to worst, you take out some models with you, and refil your power pool.

    Beasts if fun on Tzeralds because you can have a transformation monster with a 4+ ward save and Wildform on Bletters is awesome.
    40k: Silver Angels of Our Martyred Lady 7/2/3 - Daemons of the Great Squiggle! 3/1/0
    Fantasy: Windhost of Athel'Loren 2/0/0 - Daemons of Another Great Squiggle! 0/0/0
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