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    3000ish List New To Daemons

    Hello everyone,
    This post is in regards to the army I am currently assembling for 8th edition. I've been snooping around other lists and have yet to see anything like mine yet. I will be running 80 bloodletters and I wanted to know if that is over kill or not, if my points should be invested into something else.

    General
    Fateweaver

    Herald of Tzeentch
    Master of Sorcery+Life Lore
    Daemonic RObes
    Disc

    Herald of Khorne BSB
    Armor of Khorne

    Herald of Khorne
    Armor of Khorne +Firestormblade

    Bloodlettersx40
    Standard/Musician
    Icon of EndlessWar

    Bloodlettersx40
    Standard/Musician

    Flamersx6
    Pyrocaster

    Flamesx5
    Pyrocaster

    Bloodcrushers x4
    Full Command

    Hounds of Khorne x4
    =
    2996


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  3. #2
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    uh... yeah so about those umm... 80 bloodletters... uh well... I'm gonna have to tell you... umm... to break it into... you know... units of 20, okay... so if you'll go a head and just do that... that would be uh... great

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    Quote Originally Posted by aarant View Post
    uh... yeah so about those umm... 80 bloodletters... uh well... I'm gonna have to tell you... umm... to break it into... you know... units of 20, okay... so if you'll go a head and just do that... that would be uh... great
    why units of 20? why not run them horde with 10 extras each unit?




    it does seem like overkill (do you play against a lot of armor?), what does your BSB have?
    consider using Skulltaker on a Juggernaut... or HoK w/ BSB on Jug

    scrap the pyrocasters (and maybe a flamer for two squads of 5) for extra points

    add an Icon of Endless War to your other unit of 'letters and 'crushers
    "We were raised by television to believe that one day we'd be millionaires and movie gods and rock stars. But we won't. We're slowly learning that fact."

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    I like to use blood letters in hords of 50 but 40 is good also , and 2 hords very nice. love crushers and yes if you can drop the flamers for skulltaker on jug. and another crusher or 2 if you can . and yes definetly put icon of endless war any any khorne unit. i would drop the harald of tzeench if you are using fateweaver , karios will use up all of your casting dice every round why have another caster. use the points for skulltaker and the flamer points on more crushers. that would be an army i would fear. the only other thing that is very nice , you dont need but if you have and wanted to though in a unit of 20 plagebearers with a hearald of nergal with a breath weapon and use the icon that lets you reroll failed to woulds ... very nice unit

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    I would say keep the flamers, but drop the tzeentch herald for skulltaker. Drop the 4 hounds for points (need 5 for a legal unit anyways) and the pyrocaster upgrade (not needed with the sheer number of shots being put out). Firestorm blade the other herald. Crushers are getting kindof squishy now that people are planning for some sort of monsterous calvery(orgers, empire) and their monsters are better than ours anyways.

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    You dont need HoT with fateweaver so drop for skulltaker and his killing blow. Drop the hounds and get 2x single unit fiends to block charges and snipe and split your bloodcrushers into 2 units - youll appreciate this added manoeuvrability in play x

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    try to squeeze in blue scribes, you want plenty of dice if your playing the fateweaver, and blue scribes can be very helpful, let useless spells go through and hey... powerdice galore, last game I had with scribes i had 3 phases with 12 dice... if i had boon of tzeentch i would of been laughing all the way to the bank :p
    finding some space for naked Rhinos

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    why the small cursher units? i love to have 7 crushers with a harald on jug, and skull taker on jug. 3x3 unit of curshers with 2 charecters in the front rank with 1 armor saves and 5 ward. you can get look out sir rolls by haveing 5 rank in file troops and with 2 chareters and one regular crusher from the unit on the front rank all attakcs have to be split against models making it hard to focus on one thing or another . with icon of endless war you almost always get a charge off turn 2 or one if they are dumb enough to go frist and walk into you . and with all the str 6 hatred killing blow attacks not much stands up to that charge. the 6 str 5 attacks form the mounts and the 3 str 5 stomps. makes for a very fearsome charge. and you really want a sick chage use your 40 or 50 man bloodletters in a horde, take the timewarp spell from lore of light with fateweaver as well as stoneskin from lore of life . now you have always stirkes first 50 + attacks ( assuming the whole horde is in contackt) rerolling from hatred( if you have a harald , or from the always stirkes first ) with killing blow . and toughness 7 from stoneskin . this will run over anything if you ever get it off . ( i hvae been trying like hell to for kicks but always get one or the other spells countered)

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    ok... i need to just say a few words here.

    firstly to the second point of 40-50 bloodletter horde. I got that you was taking Kairo's to get Birona's Timewarp (Light) and Flesh to Stone (Life) but unless you had another herald of tzeentch with MoS (life) the maximum toughness you could get is +2. Unless you also took Throne of Vines, so this is. a 12+, 8+, and 8+ spell... which would make them very tough and yeah, your likely to win whatever combat your in. but you need to get all 3 spells off, with kairos casting on base 6+ your going to need about 5 dice to cast these spells, which means on average you only get 2-3 dice (based on no channels and not getting boon off) and your going to need to cast a spell that your opponent is going to want to dispell, so most likely a hex on the unit, but because your using the "good head" you can't use the evil hex spells like withering. meaning, most people will let you have the first spell, and concentrate on dispelling bironas. If birona's goes through then its game over

    The best thing you can do is use having birona's to your advantage, i've already talked about people wanting to dispell the more powerful spells, you don't get more powerful than bironas on bloodletters. So that spell isn't likely to be cast, it can (like a lot of other spells, be used to make people use their dispell dice) what i generally have in my kairos list is 1 hotz (light) Kairos, blue scribes, blue scribes are there so you will have better than average power dice each turn, spam spells like there is no tomorrow, then when you have 4 dice left, bironas with 3 dice to make certain you get it off, a good opponent will be waiting to dispell birona's, then with one dice cast boon of tzeentch, (if roll a 1 or 2, reroll with kairo's innate ability) get a minimum of 2 dice back, kairo's casts pha's protection, hotz casts phas protection, congratulations your horde of letters cant be hurt this combat, meaning if they dont kill them outright, then your opponent will likely need snake eyes to stay... chase them down... win this leaves the enemy thinking, they can either have bironas timewarp go through, or having untouchable horde or letters, either one your opponent wont like. and either one means your likely to win combat. only works on WS 4 or lower troops though.

    right, back to what i originally want to post about, 3x3 with herald and skull taker... how many points is that 565 for 7 bloodcrushers with full command, skulltaker + mount 200 points, herald of khorne with armour 165/200 i'd say 200 coz i assume your going for an unkillable unit of death 965 points for the unit, which any general worth their cereal will just put chaff in front, meaning you have to charge a unit worth nothing, killing it, and then your opponent sacrificing more chaff. plus 210 of those points will be exactly nothing, because your not in a horde formation, cant get supporting attacks, speaking of which, this massive point sink will be getting a grand total of 22 attacks, including stomps, less than a random horde, ok so its very high ws, and high s, you will be killing anything you can touch, but you will only be touching units that your opponent wants to die. You think you will get the charge off because of that banner... damn right you will, because my first turn i'll be parking a fiend or furies 1" directly in front of you, wasting that 25 point banner. as well as a turn of movement with them, they have earn't their points back even if they don't kill anything up, tying up nearly 1k of unit for a turn... yes please infact you can't play this unit in anything less than 2300 points.

    Dont get me wrong, in a 2400 game (which i usually play) this is great points denial, especially when supported with life, but you will likely kill all game i see this unit killing 250 points of my army, while 2150 points of my army butchers the rest of your army. Thats the major flaw with deathstars, they can easily be redirected. and then the rest of your army suffers.

    Anyway, I didn't mean to be harsh, I just wanted to get my point across.

    Right, back to the topic at hand. Theres a few things about the list I should point out

    Hounds have to be a minimum of 5, but i say drop them to afford other things
    Drop the pyrocaster upgrade (its just not worth it)
    get champions for your horde of bloodletters, the first round your opponent challanges, if you only have a herald, you can accept (it will die and you will lose hatred) you can decline (you will lose hatred as it counts as not being there) however, accept with a champion, survive the first round of combat, decline the second (because hatred only lasts for the first round, so you might as well presever your points)
    get some fiends or furies to run interference
    drop demonic robes (its pretty much the worst demonic gift)
    drop disc of tzeentch (you wont get look out sir! while its cavalry) put it in the flamers

    which leaves 81 points. guess what costs 81 points :p

    Blue scribes!!!

    I would be very tempted to do something with the bloodcrusher unit, because of the way cavalry works in 8th, they really aren't as powerful compared to infantry, you will likely be able to kill any chaff you come across, but against any decent sized horde unit, you cant beat steadfast, so unless you get the flank you are almost certainly losing combat, and thats alot of points to lose, considering it has 8 wounds... yeah... i suppose you could put the hounds back in (this time 5) so you have a counter punch unit, hell... find 20 points from somewhere.... oh wait, i know, you only need 39 bloodletters, because a heralds going in each, so you can have 2 units of 5 hounds... they will shred flanks... you just need to get them into the flank lol

    aaaanyway, I should sort this out so it's a bit easier to understand

    Lords
    Kairos Fateweaver

    Heroes

    Blue Scribes

    Herald of Khorne
    -Armour of Khorne
    -BSB

    Herald of Khorne
    -Armour of Khorne
    -Firestorm Blade

    Herald of Tzeentch
    -MoS (Light)
    -Winged Horror

    Core

    39 Bloodletters
    -Full Command
    -Icon of Endless war

    38 Bloodletters
    -Full Command

    Special

    5 Flesh Hounds of Khorne

    5 Flesh Hounds of Khorne

    Rare

    6 Flamers

    5 Flamers

    1 Fiend

    1 Fiend

    Total 3000
    finding some space for naked Rhinos

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    nuts... it's just occurred to me that this could be a grand army... with 3 units of 6 flamers *drools* anyway, that's an entirely differently way to go. but my god your opponent will hate you if you bring 18 flamers.
    finding some space for naked Rhinos

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