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I haven't played Fantasy for a couple of years, but want to get back in to it by joining an 800+ points escalation league. First month is 800 point, second 1600 & third 2400. The league is fairly competitive, so I'm looking for advice on what to field at the 800 point level and still stand a fair chance of winning. I've been playing Daemons in 40k since their codex came out, so have most models & have some movement trays that fit the round 40k bases. I'm guessing that horrors, bloodletters, flamers and heralds are the way to go, but what works best at this level against all comers.
Haven't heard any suggestions yet, so I've thought of a couple of options. Not sure if I'd be better with a Herald of Khorne or Tzeentch, can't do both at this point level. Anyway here's the two lists:
Herald Of Khorne + Armour Of Khorne (115)
17 Bloodletters + Musician + Bloodreaper + Icon Of Endless War (3x6 block including Herald) (259)
17 Pink Horrors + Musician + Irridescent Horror + Banner Of Change (3x5+2 block) (249)
5 Flamers (175)
Herald Of Tzeentch + Master Of Sorcery (Life) (140)
18 Bloodletters + Musician + Bloodreaper + Icon Of Endless War (3x6 block) (271)
15 Pink Horrors + Musician + Irridescent Horror + Standard Bearer (3x5+2 block including Herald) (210)
5 Flamers (175)
Or would I be better with say three smaller blocks of 10-12 troops (say two bloodletter blocks & one horror block or one each of bloodletters, daemonettes & horrors)? Also is it worth going with full command, or just more troops at this point level? Or am I doing completely the wrong thing? Any advice would be most welcome.
Welcome to fantasy daemons. Don't expect to have people replying right away, not many come to this corner of the forums and sometimes you can go a week with only 50 people seeing what you have posted. The units that you listed above are good except for the horrors, not like 40k where they will win games. I only like to take them as a extra wizard in lower games if i dont have one already.
Good units for lower points:
bloodletters, good in any points, plaugebearers, higher toughness means they will be harder to kill, flamers, good anyways, herald of tzeentch, loremaster at 800 points =), beasts of nurgle, again high toughness and good in combat, and the slannesh fiends, cheap and strong.
Stay away from
bloodcrushers, seekers and hounds, too expensive in lower point games.
As for the lists. The only thing i dont like is the horrors. You are spending 25% on a unit that will die in 1 turn if they get charged, and they will get charged. Magic that they can put out is not enough for the points that they cost. I am leaning to list 2, but without the horrors. The bloodletters are a fine size for 800pts, and the flamers are nasty in any point size. I would suggest dropping the horrors, giving the tzeentch herald flames and putting him with the flamers. He gains the skirmisher rule, so march 8inches, cast and shoot 6D6 shots. I would replace the horrors with another block of either plaugebearers or bloodletters. I also suggest this to everyone, try the lore of light. Last spell gives letters ASF and +1 attack, another gives I10. Better buffs when you dont have the heralds giving hatred.
For some information about units, zhambah did a really good job here:
http://www.librarium-online.com/foru...elcomed-3.html (8th ed daemons advice welcomed)
And there is a sticky page that i am working on, feel free to check it out.
Last edited by thatrandomguy; May 28th, 2012 at 19:54.
I totally agree with therandomguy about the lore of light, is synergises with our armies so well it's a bit ridiculous, also pha's protection is stupidly good in its own right. Every spell has it's use's in a daemon army, and the lore on a whole, is a lot harder to counter than life.
To counter life all you have to do is dispel throne of vines in your own turn, and counter whatever other spells they play in there turn. where as, the only downside to light is they don't have large destruction spells such as dwellers bellow, but bloodletters run through most units anyway
finding some space for naked Rhinos
Thanks for the responses guys.
Lore of Light isn't something I had thought about. Life looked like the most obvious option given the low toughness of my troops, but I can see how a unit of Plaguebearers might synergise with this better.
I can't do more than ~25 Bloodletters at the moment, so the second unit needs to be one of the other troop types rather than just a second unit of Bloodletters. If I'm not using Horrors, and Daemonettes aren't any good without a Herald (which I can't fit in at this points level), it needs to be some Plaguebearers. So my Tzeentch Herald now needs to sit with the Flamers. Doesn't that mean that he's a lot more vulnerable - won't 4-5 Flamers and the Herald crumble far quicker than ~15 Horrors and the Herald?
Something else I've thought about is dropping the Flamers down to 4 and taking a single Fiend. Giving the Herald Flames Of Tzeentch makes up for the reduced firepower, but the Herald is even more vulnerable. Something like this:
Herald Of Tzeentch + Master Of Sorcery (Life) + Flames Of Tzeentch (165)
18 Bloodletters (3x6 block) (216)
18 Plaguebearers (3x6 block) (216)
4 Flamers Of Tzeentch (140)
Fiend Of Slaanesh (55)
792 points, so I'll add a Musician to one of the troop blocks. Not sure at the moment which one would be better, probably the Plaguebearers since they are more likely to tie a combat, though both could do with the free reform.
Herald goes with the Flamers in the middle. Block of troops on each side of the Flamers with the Fiend on one flank (whichever one counters my opponents war machines best, otherwise just the side that looks the most threatening). The biggest concern of this over my original list, is the lack of a backup Wizard, the survivability of 4 Flamers over a block of Horrors for the Herald bunker and the reduced manoeuvrability of the Flamers (can only march 8 rather than 12 and need more protecting so less flexibility with deployment, certainly not safe to put them on a flank anymore). Also no there's no points for an Icon of Endless War, but I suppose I could knock the Plaguebearers down to a 3x5 block if it's really worth it.
Any thoughts on all of this?
Ya, light is probably the last lore you think of, but I10 plaugebearers or ASF bloodletters with 2 attacks each can get nasty.
Plaugebearers, if you have them, can be ridiculous in low points. High toughness means some units can't wound them as easy, and poisoned gives you an answer to high T targets.
Yes, 4 flamers is a more fragile unit, but there are more benefits to fielding the flamers over the horrors. Horrors have to stay in a block, sitting behind the army protecting the wizard. Their spell isn't that good because you will be wanting the dice to go to your loremaster instead. The block formation leaves you more open to a charge, and once you are in combat, T3 horrors drop like flies. Also the points spent on them gives you not much more than a LVL1 wizard with a useless spell. Flamers can be deployed so that you are able to move around unit's charging ark to avoid getting charged. T4 and 2 wounds/model mean that shooting weapons (your main threat for them) will be less effective and if you get charged i find that the flamers will be able to at least survive a turn with the higher toughness. Give them WS 10 and they are hard to hit, and little wounds will fall on them. Also the shooting attack is more effective than the spell the horrors get.
Overall, the main thing with the flamers is that you can avoid combat easier, and are more resistant against shooting, while still being able to do damage. Try a game with both units if you can and decide for yourself which you like better.
Fiends are crazy good. Even the march 20 can distract opponents and make them question what it is going to do next. Leaving it alone can be dangerous and devoting magic/shooting to it means less for the rest of the army. To be truthful i don't really care if you waste a magic phase killing a 55pt model instead of my bloodletters.