Seaching for a new army

[dragonfang1010d]

Hello there

I need some feedback from DE players. I am going to be starting a new army soon and I'm trying to decide which one. I have started a similar thread on the GK forum, asking about them, with great results. The reason I'm looking into starting a new army is becuase I would like some new strategies to try out. Currently I play orks, and tau which are both fun in there own right but I am looking for a different style of army. I have heard that DE are very unique since they are one of the most mobile armies in the game, and i think that would be a fun change of pace compared to jumpsuits, and foot slogging orks.

So here are the questions.

1. Why do you enjoy playing DE?

2. Are Scourges a valid unit choice? (I think they are really cool, but I see them excluded form many lists)

3. Are Beast Packs just too good not to use? (Don't really like the idea of them)

4. What is your favorite unit, why?

5. How would you guys start a DE army knowing what you do now as current DE players? (Like are there certain units that are good in a variety of different lists, are there sneaky little conversion techniques that you know to get extra weapons from certain kits, and such)

6. Is there another army that you play that you think is very fun that you would recommend? (as long as its fairly different form orks, and tau)

Any and all feedback will be greatly appreciated , thanks for you time!

[dizzie]

1. Why do you enjoy playing DE?
I enjoy Playing DE as their fluff is brilliant, kinda reminds me of the bad guys in stargate alantis, the reavers, self serving and living on the souls of the weak and relishing in the pain and torment.
Other than that the army itself is very different from the norm, very fast, lots of numbers, although very fragile they hit extremely hard. the glass hammer so to speak, love the new models, they are the best army looks wise that GW offer at the moment imo. DE is now a very balanced codex meaning all units can be used, so you have a wide variety of choice and never really stuck for new army ideas and/or fluffy armies.
I love fast armies, think my next will be bloodangels so that may have something to do with it, an agressive playstyle.

2. Are Scourges a valid unit choice? (I think they are really cool, but I see them excluded form many lists)
Yeah scourges are a valid choice, theres a few variants that work well:
1) 5 with 2 haywire launchers, known as auto stunlock, they can lock down scary vehicles so your army can deal with smaller stuff first, open a few rhinos to empty its contents for splinter fire and HTH, then deal with the tougher armour later.
2) 10 with 4 blasters, this is the duality of both anti tank and anti-infantry, i usually switcharoo a heamy here for a pain token, if find the either deal a ton of damage or take a ton of your opponents firepower. which ever scenario they have served their purpose.
3)10 with 4 Sc's, lot of splinter shots for anti infantry, its like having 3-4 venoms combined and a cheap way of doing this if you don't want to buy MSU squads.

3. Are Beast Packs just too good not to use? (Don't really like the idea of them)
not really our fast attack slots really fight for use with one another, beasts are amazing, they excel in HTH but suffer from a weak leadership, though you can easily find your HTH elements elsswhere in the codex. Ya see DE are all about synergy(just like eldar), and you can find speed, hth and shooting elements in all brackets of the codex(i.e. troops, elites fast ect.) DE can be played in many flavours. You may see venom spam a lot with beasts but this army is very fragile. It overwhelms an opponent however an opponent worth his salt will know how to deal with this army and target prioritise correctly so over time i think you will see less and less of this army in tourneys if you are a tournament go-er, people are playing the mathhammer game. If the rumours for 6th are true and the leaked rulebook is the rulebook then MSU units used in venom spam are on their way out, you get rewarded more for having squad sergeants armed with good weaponry and you are really not gonna see a weak squad supporting the seargent so i expect to see full squads with maxed out equipment making a strong return, vehicles are getting nerfed slighty so more walking infantry should make a return, though DE skimmers recieve a boost(yay, they are just harder to hit through shooting). This is speculation though, either it was a well done elaborate hoax, or a lot of what was in it will stay.

4. What is your favorite unit, why?
Reavers, now reavers are tricky to use, very fragile but when used right they annoy your opponent so so much. I find reavers are great for making your opponent react with his army incorrectly, trying to deal with the annoying flies shooting his tanks up back field, then zooming off again. Reavers are hilariously fast. I would say i don't hate a unit all units get their fair play, except maybe harlies and mandrakes but both have their uses.

5. How would you guys start a DE army knowing what you do now as current DE players? (Like are there certain units that are good in a variety of different lists, are there sneaky little conversion techniques that you know to get extra weapons from certain kits, and such)
Get the battle force(£150ish one) then a few venoms, raiders and fill 3 slot ravagers first. You might find cheap armies on ebay, thats where i got the bulk of mine, then add to it with what you like after that. Also you can buy resin do it yourself kits if you need extra weapons, very cheap to do, plenty of youtube videos showing how to do this, as far as i'm aware GW don't mind you doing this for weapons, as long as you are not selling them, They don't expect you to buy a box just for a few weapons, otherwise a bits websites ect.

6. Is there another army that you play that you think is very fun that you would recommend? (as long as its fairly different form orks, and tau)
Blood angels are good fun, expensive points wise but brutal, i love blood talon dreads, jump pack dreads(spell), death company with reclusiarch, the army has some real hard hitting options and priests that add FNP are just the icing on the cake. Bhall preds are fun too, outfalnking with devastating flamers is pretty harsh.

[Kabbala]

I think the question that will come up is what type of environment are you playing in: for fun or on the competitive scene? I typically play for "fun" with a steady gaming group, and have gone to the occasional tournament. Over the past 14 years of collecting and playing them as my main force, I enjoy mixing it up and including units not typically taken with all the internet lists you see. So to your questions:

1. Way back in '99 when they came out, I enjoyed the fluff of the race and their play style.
2. I believe they are a valid choice, but the reason you see them omitted many times is the other options available in the FA slot are regarded as better.
3. Use Reavers or Hellions then, no need to take the Beastmaster and his pack.
4. I would say the Wyches and Lelith hands down! Do they get pummeled at times for their carefree assaulting way? Of course, but I love the concept, the fluff, and yes even the models (I prefer the old ones actually!)
5. Depends on why you play. The general consensus is the DE codex is one of the more balanced out there. It's all about the synergy between units and tactics, know your enemy and exploit their weaknesses.

I hope that helps a bit! And welcome to the DE, if you choose to pursue this path! As Dizzie posted while I was writing, I'll just add that his is one of the more sane opinions on the forum. So what he said, plus my humble addition.

[Non Marine Player]

Yes, dizzie is usually someone with a level head on these matters, however whilst I agree on many levels, I have a few things I think to add in addition:

1. Why do you enjoy playing DE?

What's not to like? You are playing as a cut-throat bunch of marauding space pirates, exiled by their own race and slowly but surely falling prey to an ancient evil of their own creation. This army is for the villain in all of us (not the Necron type villain, they called dibs on the death rays) but for the evil genius we can imagine ourselves as, devious and sadistic and with a certain level of class. Plus they're really fast, we have a manoeuvrability that very few can match, transports or advanced deployment strategies available to all our units.

2. Are Scourges a valid unit choice?

Armour-wise they are among our more sturdy units (relatively speaking, don't expect them to survive an army shooting them), and they have not only very potent anti-infantry potential but get our pick of special/heavy weapons. It's best to stay away from giving them Dark Lances, as their mobility and other qualities give us reasons to use them in a more offensive role. Shredders you'd end up using if you have friends who play for fun, or if you come across a lot of foot-slogging armies (Blob-Platoon Guard, Orks, 'Nids, even some Necron builds), but their lack of AP makes people shy away. As for builds, dizzie gives all but 1, which is 5 with 2 Heat Lances, which plays completely differently to the unit with Haywire Blasters usually jumping out of a Webway Portal and being a cheap way to bag a dangerous tank.

3. Are Beast Packs just too good not to use?

In my honest opinion, they're good, but so are the rest of our Fast Attack choices. If your army needs a unit like Beasts, then go for it, however Reavers and Scourges should be taken if you have a more combat focussed list, the Anti-tank firepower/Anti-infantry support fire useful for breaking tranports and taking large squads down to manageable sizes. Plus, whilst squishy, Hellions are one of the least appreciated units in our codex, packing massive amounts of shooting and Str 4 attacks in combat (potentially even strength 5 with the right combat drugs).

4. What is your favourite unit, why?

I have no single favourite unit, but I can tell you very strongly that I think all of our troops choices (Wracks and Hellions included) are amazing. Wyches are incredible, either holding up elite units and whittling them down or running through less elite units with ease, whilst Warriors (probably my most used) are the core of the majority of our lists, their access to blasters and splinter weapons give us a multi-purpose unit in either transport, usually favouring the anti-infantry.

5. How would you guys start a DE army knowing what you do now as DE players?

Well, if you can find any of the Megaforce boxes lying around on the internet, that give you a lot of units then get it, otherwise the battleforce give you good units (since Wyches and Warriors easily become their elite choice doppelgangers). After 2-3 of them you'll need some Venoms and Raiders, as well as either 3 Ravagers or 2 Ravagers and a Razorwing, and for your HQ you will want at least 1 Haemonculus, as well as either an Archon or a Succubus. After that you can basically get what you want, knowing that you have a strong section of Troops and Heavy Support, using the Squads and Transports in whatever combinations you want (5 Warriors in Venom, 5 Wyches in Venom, 5 Warriors in Raider, 7-9 Wyches in Raider, 10 Warriors in Raider) until you find the ones you like to use. I will say this now, once you have your core, this forum is very good for more general builds, but you will never know what you truly like/will work against your friends until you have tried everything yourself.

6. Is there another army that you play that you think is very fun that you would recommend?

I'd recommend either Imperial Guard (not played as a static gunline, but using them in a WW2 Russian infantry kind of way with armoured support) or Necrons. The 'Crons used to be very boring, and building Necron Warriors is still not thrilling, but their new rules allow you to bend the game mechanics so that they disadvantage your enemy; you make the enemy play on your terms. Plus there is sometimes nothing funnier than seeing the look in your opponent's eyes when half of their shooting comes to nothing =P. Infantry heavy guard are also fun, it makes you feel more like a general, and you get an epic feeling when your simple humans have defeated massive aliens or superhuman evils through tactics, numbers and heroism.

Hope I've given you some more ideas to think about, hope you make a good choice =)
NMP