Who are the best Dark Eldar assault infantry?

[django]

Ok, Following discussions elsewhere I was interested in which of our Assault Infantry were the best.

Keeping things as even as possible (Same number of points each side, ignoring terrain and the extra attacks from charging) It produced the figures below. This is a warning, I've stuck to average figures so expect to see lots of fractionally dead troops. ;-)

So, to make things easier I am comparing:

10 Incubi = 220 pts
22 Wracks = 220 pts
22 Wyches = 220 pts

1) INCUBI v WYCHES

Having an initiative of 6, the 22 Wyches attack first with 2 hand weapons each giving:

44 attacks requiring 4+ To Hit = 22 Hits

The 22 Hits wound on a 4+ = 11 Wounds

The Incubi then have a 3+ save = 3.67 dead

With an Initiative of 5, the remaining 6.333 Incubi attack with 2 attacks each, giving:

12.67 attacks requiring 3+ To Hit = 8.4 Hits

The 8.4 Hits wound on a 3+ due to the strength increase from the Klaives = 5.63 Wounds

The Wyches have an invulnerable Dodge save of 4+ = 2.815 dead

WYCHES BEAT INCUBI



2) WYCHES v WRACKS

Having an initiative of 6, the 22 Wyches attack first with 2 hand weapons each giving:

44 attacks requiring 4+ To Hit = 22 Hits

The 22 Hits wound on a 5+ due to the Wracks T4 = 7.333 Wounds

The Wracks then have a 6+ save = 6.111 failed

However, the Wracks have a Pain Token so they get the 4+ Feel No Pain save = 3.056 dead

With an Initiative of 4, the remaining 18.944 Wracks attack with 2 hand weapons each, giving:

37.889 attacks requiring 4+ To Hit = 18.944 Hits

The 18.944 Hits wound on a 4+ due to the weapons being poison = 9.472 Wounds
Due to using poison weapons, the wracks re-roll their "To Wound" rolls since the wracks'
strength is the same as the Wyches Toughness. Total wounds scored = 14.208 wounds

The Wyches have an invulnerable Dodge save of 4+ = 7.104 dead

WRACKS BEAT WYCHES



3) WRACKS v INCUBI

Having an initiative of 5, the 10 Incubi attack with 2 attacks each, giving:

20 attacks requiring 3+ To Hit = 13.333 Hits

The 13.333 Hits wound on a 4+ due to the strength increase from the Klaives = 6.667 Wounds

As the Incubi use Power Weapons the Wracks do not get their Armour save or their Feel No Pain save = 6.667 dead

With an Initiative of 4, the remaining 15.333 Wracks attack with 2 hand weapons each, giving:

30.667 attacks requiring 4+ To Hit = 15.333 Hits

The 15.333 Hits wound on a 4+ due to the weapons being poison = 7.667 Wounds

Due to using poison weapons, the Wracks re-roll their "To Wound" rolls since the wracks'
strength is the same as the Incubi's Toughness. Total wounds scored = 11.5 wounds

The Incubi have an armour save of 3+ = 3.833 dead

INCUBI BEAT WRACKS


Conclusion
As it turns out, it appears that choosing our Assault Infantry is like playing a game of Paper-Scissors-Stone. No one type is "Better" than the others; it all depends on what you wish to use them for.

[Bugs_n_Orks]

Nice write up. Couple of things to edit though. The poison weapons the wracks use get to re-roll their "To Wound" rolls against both the wyches and the incubi since the wracks' strength is the same or higher than their targets toughness. Also the Incubi ignore the wracks 6+ save thanks to their power weapons.

[django]

Nice write up. Couple of things to edit though. The poison weapons the wracks use get to re-roll their "To Wound" rolls against both the wyches and the incubi since the wracks' strength is the same or higher than their targets toughness. Also the Incubi ignore the wracks 6+ save thanks to their power weapons.

Cheers, I knew I'd forgotten something! I've modified the original post and re-calculated the values to reflect these.

[nigelboyette]

interesting i never contemplated how our assault troops would do against each other. i have one question though, wouldnt it have been a stronger test of their capabilites to match them vs. other armies units instead of each other? However your thread did point out the strengths of our assualt units quite well, incubi are good against units that rely on FNP or high armour(not in the wracks case but still), wytches are good against units with power weapons, and wracks are good against light infantry that dont have power weapons. As you said its kinda like rock paper scissors when you think about it.

[django]

interesting i never contemplated how our assault troops would do against each other. i have one question though, wouldnt it have been a stronger test of their capabilites to match them vs. other armies units instead of each other? However your thread did point out the strengths of our assualt units quite well, incubi are good against units that rely on FNP or high armour(not in the wracks case but still), wytches are good against units with power weapons, and wracks are good against light infantry that dont have power weapons. As you said its kinda like rock paper scissors when you think about it.

I did consider that, but to get a true answer as to which was best you would have to compare all three against multiple opponents from multiple races. It was easier (And I believe, just as accurate) to match them against each other.

I've never been a huge fan of Wracks, so I was very surprised as to how balanced the results were. It's already persuaded me to give them more of a chance in future.

[El_Jairo]

I've never been a huge fan of Wracks, so I was very surprised as to how balanced the results were. It's already persuaded me to give them more of a chance in future.

You sure should try them in a group of 9 with a Heamy to get FC on the charge off the bat. Striking before marines and RR-ing 2wound is just devastating. It gives 10,5 wounds, 3,5 kills, the Heamy (assuming VB CC weapon) adds another 1,78 wounds (0,59 kills).
This looks not that impressive but you should know that these squad will pack 2x LG, assuming they can hit 5 models it will result in average 3,3 kills.
Sum it up and there will be about 7,42 dead MEQ, before they strike back. So I would make sure they charge a full 10 men MEQ squad!

I'm going to try out an all out assault army and so I will be testing all types of these units.

[KwiKwag]

I think El_Jairo mentions what I compare to and that is usually a 10 man Marine squad with 2 special weapons and a powerfist. I have found that wound allocation (the presence of 2 special weapons in a 10 man squad) can and does affect your math-hammer when all your power weapon wounds are isolated to just 1 model out of 10 (or usually 2 models out of 1.

But I see that really isn't the intent here, just a first round average against each other - I am not seeing the value I guess.

[django]

I think El_Jairo mentions what I compare to and that is usually a 10 man Marine squad with 2 special weapons and a powerfist. I have found that wound allocation (the presence of 2 special weapons in a 10 man squad) can and does affect your math-hammer when all your power weapon wounds are isolated to just 1 model out of 10 (or usually 2 models out of 1.

But I see that really isn't the intent here, just a first round average against each other - I am not seeing the value I guess.

A "Marine squad with 2 special weapons and a powerfist" is an artifical standard. Not every opponent play marines, and of those not every marine army will contain such a specific unit. As the test showed, a unit that could handle a "Marine squad with 2 special weapons and a powerfist" won't necessarily be any good against other types of units.

The aim of the comparison was to compare the close combat capabilities of Dark Eldar units, not Dark Eldar & Space Marine units. This is why I produced the comparisons of our three main assault troops, with no "extras", against each other. The comparison was kept as "pure" as possible by not considering who charged or what cover they were in. This was an attempt to see if any of the 3 units outperformed the other two.

The value are the conclusions reached. Namely Wyches are best against power weapons, Incubi against high Toughness/Armour and Wracks against basic troops

[El_Jairo]

The value are the conclusions reached. Namely Wyches are best against power weapons, Incubi against high Toughness/Armour and Wracks against basic troops

Without wanting to be downgrading to your calculations but these facts are quite obvious when you look at the basic stats and rules of these units. I would even advocate that Wracks are best vs high toughness, as they almost ignore T value. I would rather say the Incubi are great vs good AS enemies.

What interests me more are what typical load-outs of these units will perform during several turns of combat vs typical enemies in terms of Combat Resolution.

So you know what kind of unit will be able to charge an enemy and break them on the charge, or after how many turns. Also useful could be to know if a unit can take a charge from typical assault troops and survive without breaking, so you can more easily counter charge them.

But again, I like the fact that you did this comparison, at least it can start some discussion.

[nigelboyette]

i actually think this has inspired me to do some math hammer on various units to determine good matchups.