Wwp's

[MobiusPrime]

A couple of clarrifications (Oiy, I'm tired of beating this dead horse)

1. If you put squads in reserve because of a WWP, and all of your WWP carriers are killed, the squads that are in the WWP are destroyed. They cannot come on from your table edge, because they aren't anywhere near the battlefield (fluff). They are waiting for the portal in warpspace to open up where ever they are in the webway.
(I seriously doubt that Space Wolf scouts would be able to sneak out to where ever your army is waiting for this gate to open, thus their lame rule for jumping out from your table edge shouldn't work, my opinion)

2. You start rolling for reserves on turn 2. PERIOD. Players (in general) that want to delay their reserve rolls are SOL.
However, if your DE are using a WWP, and the WWP has not been opened yet. and reserve rolls are made (and passed), then the reserves sort of 'stack up' in the WWP, so they can all come in when the WWP is opened.
Ex. Turn one, move WWP bearer up the field.
Turn two, start rolling for reserves at 4+ (let's say you have four in reserve and make two successful reserve rolls). WWP not opened yet, so reserves do not come in on the table edge.
Turn two shooting phase, deploy WWP.
Turn three, reserve rolls are made at 3+ (let's say you get the other two).
Now all your reserves can come in from the WWP just like they were moving on from a table edge. Infantry can move 6" away from the little blast circle, vehicles/jetbikes and the like, can move their respected distances. Units may fire at the enemy per normal shooting rules, and assault if within range.

3. The DE list that contains the WWP is the only one that can make use of that WWP. You cannot deploy any allies from the portal. And if your ally is another DE player, then they can only deploy from a WWP if they also brought one in their list. And then, they can only deploy from theirs, and you can only deploy from yours.
This would be the same of Black Templars hitching a ride in a Blood Angel Rhino. It's just not legal.

4. The rest of your squad may fire even if the WWP bearer is laying the WWP in that turn. Only the WWP bearer sacrifices his/her shooting, not the whole squad.

5. The WWP ROCKS when it comes to effectiveness.
Give the WWP to a Sybarite in a Raider Squad. Deploy the Raider as far in the table as possible (usually 12"). Move the Raider 12" up the first turn, deploy 2", fleet of foot 1-6 (max range 32" into enemy territory)(Don't forget the width of the template, plus the extra sneaky Raider deployment move, (deploy the Raider sideways, move it up 12", then turn it to face the enemy, and deploy 2" from its prow). Turn two, deploy the WWP. Turn three, all hell breaks loose.

[Lomendil]

Originally posted by MobiusPrime@Mar 21 2005, 22:25
Give the WWP to a Sybarite in a Raider Squad.Â* Deploy the Raider as far in the table as possible (usually 12").Â* Move the Raider 12" up the first turn, deploy 2", fleet of foot 1-6 (max range 32" into enemy territory)(Don't forget the width of the template, plus the extra sneaky Raider deployment move, (deploy the Raider sideways, move it up 12", then turn it to face the enemy, and deploy 2" from its prow).Â* Turn two, deploy the WWP.Â* Turn three, all hell breaks loose.

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If the Raider is shot down before it can unload it's passengers - and let's face it, that's not unlikely if you don't get the first turn - then that throws off the whole strategy. If you insist on deploying right far forwards, you limit how much cover you can take advantage of. If you prefer to use the best cover, this may mean having to deploy far back! Even cover won't help all that much, it usually only gives 'obscured target' which is not very much protection. The dismounted squad, which can only be 10 strong at most, is horribly vulnerable to shooting. If the opponent has any fast assault troops then you aren't going to want to dismount your squad to close to the enemy anyway, which negates the point of the speed. Escalation will also screw you.

Footslogging the portals is much safer, ideally using an Independant Character or two, with Warrior Squads as meatshield escorts. It's just as efficient as using a Raider Squad because you don't need the portal to be right in the enemy half of the table. You just need it anywhere near the halfway-line of the table because your units in the Webway are going to have a big charge range, especially if using Raiders (which they should - Raiders give the extra speed and ability to fly over terrain, they pack a Dark Lance, and they can mount a Horrorfex and a Trophy Rack, ALL of which are useful. Most crucially, they add 14" to the charge distance of units riding them, meaning at least 20" charge range from the portal). Even a Talos can assault a target 12" from the portal, so these will usually have a target too.

If you don't believe me, try both methods extensively. I have been doing so for over 6 months now, so you can trust me! The footslogging is the safe efficient option. The benefit from using a Raider Squad is at best marginal, while the risks are large. It just doesn't pay off.

[Ebon Hand]

I agree, on foot is a little safer, but if the terrain is good (ie City) then use a raider. It will be much faster and you will get a better spot for it.

Mobius you have a point there on the Space Wolves now that I think about it. Although I wouldnt put trying to infiltrate Commoragh past them, they have no understanding of the webway and how it works. Plus, it says "treat the WWP as a peice of your table edge", where as the Wolf ability says they move in "from the enemy's table edge".

There is nothing to indicate that non-dark eldar units cannot come through the portal. It simply says "your units may enter through the portal". However, they mean YOUR units, as in the ones on your army list. If you are playing with a friend, or have a seperate detatchment using another force organization chart in your army Mobius is right, they can't enter.

What do you mean by the "sneaky raider trick" Mobius? You change facing during your move, not after. After moving, no part of the Raider can be more than 12 inches from where it started if you want to disembark.

Thats like driving bikes sideways, then turning them forward to get an extra inch of charge distance.

[Archonbjorn]

A couple of clarrifications (Oiy, I'm tired of beating this dead horse)

1. If you put squads in reserve because of a WWP, and all of your WWP carriers are killed, the squads that are in the WWP are destroyed. They cannot come on from your table edge, because they aren't anywhere near the battlefield (fluff). They are waiting for the portal in warpspace to open up where ever they are in the webway.

Ow your using fluff as a excuse? Ok then il bring in the fluff 2. Book crimson tears from ben counter I thought it was were the souldrinkers try to find there lost assault sergeant. Anyway in the first chapter when the IG are attacked the books says that there were suddenly portals opening and HUMAN like beings coming out of it. This was the population of that planet but deformed. Ok not a big deal you think De often take slaves BUT now the best part of it the DE archon wanted to ''own'' the planet and make a second commoragh by worshipping slaanesh and giving him pain suffering from the IG guards that were fighting liek idiots to stay alive. So THAT fluff says the human being are teleproted but they NEVER left the planet so they could still wlak on the ''batllefield'' even if the portal carrier was killed. How do you explain that?

[MobiusPrime]

Ow your using fluff as a excuse?

It's either in the Codex or in a DE FAQ somewhere. I know that they count destroyed, and can't come on from the table edge.


The 'sneaky Raider move' is a way to play dirty without actually cheating.
Turning a vehicle is free. You can turn it as much as you want, and it pivots on it's center point (usually the stem of the flying base in the case of a Raider).
During deployment, deploy your Raider sideways along the deployment line, then in your movement phase, turn the Raider (pivoting on the center point (the stem)) and then move it 12".

After moving, no part of the Raider can be more than 12 inches from where it started if you want to disembark.

Negative. Turning is free. Let see an example.

This'll be our Raider:

<=<<

It's facing left. At the start of our turn it turns around 180 degrees, and flies 12".

---------------->>=>

If you measure from the prow in the starting position to the prow in the ending position, I assure you that this is more than 12".

The configuration of the model on the board is not what you're measuring. You are only measuring actual movement, and since turning is free and our Raiders are longer than they are wide, some people think this is an unfair tactic, it's not.

(It's the same when a Rhino full of Marines drive up 12", turns and deploys the Marines out of a side hatch who then rapid fire. When the vehicle turns, it's rear is actually traveling a bit farther than 12", but since the vehicle only moved 12" and then turned, this is a legal move.)

Getting back to the Raider, since this is an open topped vehicle, the access point is the whole model (including the prow), so your Warriors can hop over the Raider's gunner and land two inches from the prow of the boat.

Using this tactic, I've hit Firewarriors on an open plain before they had a chance to shoot (though you need the 12" assault Combat Drug result to do it.)

[Archonbjorn]

It's either in the Codex or in a DE FAQ somewhere. I know that they count destroyed, and can't come on from the table edge.

Wel lthen quote the text from the codex or the De faq.

[MobiusPrime]

Go read the codex yourself.

[Archonbjorn]

I did it doesnt say anything about units being destroyed.