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Heya guys, I'm coming back into the hobby after a break of a few years and have started with dark elves, as I got into them not too long after the old army book was released. I've bought the new book and played a couple of games to get back into the swing of things a bit and I'm entering a small campaign/tourney at my local GW. The list is just a prototype (I still need to buy about £80 of stuff and I'm pretty skint!) so please don't be afraid to criticise or make suggestions.
Supreme Sorceress lvl 4 - Sacrificial Dagger & Pendant of Khaeleth ( 320 ) Goes in with the spearmen to make us of the dagger
Sorceress, lvl 2 ( XXX )
Sorceress, lvl 2 ( XXX )
20 Spearmen, full CMD & shields ( 155 )
10 Crossbowmen ( XXX )
10 Crossbowmen ( XXX )
20 Corsairs, full CMD ( 225 )
6 Dark Riders, x bows ( XXX )
6 Cold one knights, full CMD ( 212 )
6 Cold one knights, full CMD, standard of slaughter ( 247 )
20 Black Guard w/ full CMD ( 295 )
2 x Bolt Thrower ( XXX )
This should come out at 2236. I'm trying to shave points for a possible magic item or two on the Sorceresses, but where would they come from?
Another alternative that I'm considering would be to replace the Black Guard with a chariot and either a hydra or two more bolt throwers. This would also end up hurting my wallet a lot less :p
Please don't post points of units without upgrades in future. GN out
Last edited by gingerninja; August 7th, 2008 at 08:40. Reason: Points
The easiest way you can skim off some points from this army is to drop the command models from the cold one knights. If you want the standard on the one unit that is fine, but drop it's champion. Drop the champion and standard off of the other unit too.
This should give you over 60pts, which is more than enough to get a darkstar cloak and a seal of ghrond on the sorceress.
The list is good, so I say try it out.
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This probably isn't what you want to hear as it will involve a reasonable amount of reworking your list to achieve it, but IMO I do believe it to be one of the most devastating combos to put into a single unit (that's unit, not model).
What you will need to add is an Assassin with Rune of Khaine and Manbane and also give the Standard of Hag Graef to the Black Guard. This works a little better with a Cauldron of Blood but it's not essential. The Black Guard will hold their own against (if not butcher) any infantry they fight while the Assassin is an efficient character (and maybe even monster) killer, not to mention that he will slaughter almost any smaller units he comes across (including war machines).
In fact in a game a few days ago against Vampire Counts I had the exact same combo (although I did have a Cauldron) and he had some vampire with an item that made my Assassin strike last against him. So he charged and set up a flank charge for the following round. Anyway, he didn't do enough wounds to kill the assassin and in return the assassin did 7 wounds to his Vampire! I then proceeded to kill the champion and a bunch of rank and file guys, this was followed speedily with the crumbling of the rest of the unit. Now this was a unit of about 20 T4 guys with a hero in them. Now seeing as most of the time your opponent isn't going to have some special item of "screw over assassins" this will likely mean the death of an enemy character.
The problem as I said is the points issue and this change will most likely mean the removal of a Knight unit. If you do however remove a Knight unit you will have a few points left over towards those magic items you wanted.
P.S. Feel free to disregard this advice if you think it will take vital units away. I don't know how you play and shouldn't presume to tell you.
The only problem with this combo that I can see is that, while devastating, it does chew up a lot of points. By my reckoning that takes them up to 470 points, which takes up 20% of all my points and the whole unit still only rates a 5+ armour save. That's fine against vampire counts who are (to my recollection anyway - I've not fought against them in years!) a mostly close combat oriented army but against something that's more shooty they're going to make a big, fat target, particularly considering I don't really have anything to act as a meat shield. One of the reasons I've not been doing well in games so far is that I've gone the way of throwing masses of points into elite units only to have them suffer hugely from poor resistance to stuff like that.
I'm due for a game or two this week anyway, so I'll give it a whirl!
didn't mention this earlier, but you could give the black guard the banner of hag graef and the towermaster champion the crimson death - voila! you don't need an assassin or bsb or anything else. They are a stand alone, ready to deal death unit, allowing your other nasties to join weaker units (like corsairs and spearmen).
I'll be running my BG 6 wide 3 deep with this same combo and unless I have a hard time shutting down enemy magic or shooting, I expect them to win about every head to head combat. They re-roll hits every turn and deal out 10 str 4 I6 hits and 3 str6 hits every turn.
Also the vulnerability to shooting is one of the reasons why I do take the Cauldron. I give them a 5+ ward as they are marching up the field and then +1A when they get in combat.
Sorry for double post
Last edited by Daemonslayer; August 12th, 2008 at 15:08. Reason: Double Post
First, do you have any more Spearman with shields? I would replace your Corsair unit with the spearman if your intention were for them to receive a charge, and setting up a counter charge for your other hitting units -- Cold One Knights/Hydra.
If you are planning on using the Spearman as sacrificial lamb for your Sorceress (poor guys), I would suggest you to keep the Corsairs but dropping the unit size down to 10. Their extra protection against shooting will pay off as a target practice dummy.
I would also drop the command group off your Cold One Knights. Banner in small units are easy 100 VPs for your opponent.
Drop those items off your Supreme Sorceress.. Pendant of Khaleth isnt made for her. If she manage to find her way into combat, then she may as well as be dead... since she'll be quite useless without a Familiar. There really is no point in giving her a Pendant against miscast wounds. Instead, I would give her Black Staff and use it only at the end of your magic phase when your opponent has done spending all his dispel dices on your other spells... one critical casting from this staff could very well win you the game .. i.e. Word of Pain.
Dispel Scrolls are a must. Perhaps you could put the Sacrificial Dagger on someone else.
If you have done dropping the CoK CMD groups, Sorceress' Magic Items, lowering the unit size of Corsair.. then you are looking at 1943pts which leaves you handful of points to play with. First I would give the Black Guard unit the ASF banner, and forget about Crimson Death or an assassin. Let your Black Guard take the blunt while you set up your counter charge with your COKs. You can also take a War Hydra or a couple Chariots with the points left over.
Anima Tactics - try it out!
Well, I splurged today when I was down at GW and bought the full unit of black guard and another box of warriors to bring up the numbers to 20 spearmen and 2 x 10 crossbowmen. I'm having a couple of games on Monday so I'll have a game with fewer corsairs, no cold one knight standards and a reshuffle of the magic items & banners.
I'll also give it a shot with the beefed BG with either the assassin or the uber champion. I think I'll certainly be taking the ASF banner with the BG every time I field them now - it certainly seems to make them able to take a charge!
Thanks again for all the advice guys, you've definitely reduced the number of games I have to lose horribly before I get back into the swing of things!