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  1. #1
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    1000 pts Dark Elves - Starter Army

    After a really bad expiriance with Lizardmen, I quit Warhammer for awhile and took up LotR SBG. The other day I looked over the new DE Army Book and thought they looked competitive and (potentially...) fun. So, I'm seriously considering starting a DE. Problem number one: money. I'm trying to scrape together a competitive starting army from mostly the $90 battalion coming out later this month. Here's what I came up with:

    Heroes:
    Master
    > Cold one, lance, shield, heavy armor, SD cloak
    Sorceress
    > Lvl 2 mage, 2 x Dispel scolls

    Core:
    18 x DE Warriors
    > Full command
    10 x DE Warriors w/ RXBs
    > Shields
    15 x Corsairs
    > Full command

    Special:
    5 x Cold One Knights [Master goes here]
    > Full command

    Rare:
    R. Bolt Thrower

    Total: 1000 pts on the dot. Outside of the Batalion box, I only need the heroes and bolt thrower.


    Mind you, I don't yet have the Army Book so I don't know about DE specific magic items / upgrades / ect. If / when I decide to go foward with another Warhammer army, I'll buy the book.

    On a side note, what have your expiriances with the new DEs been? Do they require practice to get good with? Is it difficult to create an effective list? What is your most feared / difficult opponent?

    Thanks for any help.
    ~ Agent


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  3. #2
    Ahhhhh.... nekochen's Avatar
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    Hey there!

    The new Dark Elves army book got me really excited too. I picked it up the other day and I have been committed to this new army ever since. It's a good time to come back and play again. .. with that said, onto your list..

    Your master is awfully naked, that's like shelling out some premium points for a better champion that gets 1 extra attack and 1 better WS. Either give him some purpose or drop him altogether.

    You dont need a Lv.2 mage as scroll caddy, Lv1 mage is good enough that you *may* get 1 spell off every turn if you successfully cast the Power of Darkness first.

    Everything else looks good, you could give it a try.. I would do something like this if I were to start an army with the basic Battalion Box and a couple purchase.

    Master w/ Hvy Armour, Shield, SD Cloak, Cold One, Pendant of Khaeleth (unkillable ward save), Sword of Might (+1 STR).

    Sorceress Lv1 w/ 2x Dispel Scrolls

    20x Dark Elves Spearman w/ Shields, Full Command, Assassin in the squad w/ Manbane (always wounds on 3+ with proper STR/Amour Save modifier)

    10x Dark Elves RxB, Sorceress could be hiding in here

    5x Cold One Knights, no command group, Master joins this unit.

    1x War Hydra

    The War Hydra is a little more expensive than the Bolt Thrower.. but that's just my opinion so feel free to discard the suggestion.

    To answer your last questions -- I think the new Dark Elves are awesome-ly balanced, they are not too over the edge like the new High Elves and their better-at-everything-army. Every army requires some sort of practice before you can get to know how they function, reading the army book and having an imaginary battle in your head does not work. Once you understand how each unit performs then making your lists wouldnt be difficult anymore. So far, the only army i would have trouble dealing with is against the Daemon of Chaos... but then again, most army would have a more difficult time -- that's why I play Daemons too
    Last edited by nekochen; August 9th, 2008 at 06:10.
    Anima Tactics - try it out!

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    Thanks for the feedback. I agree the master is pretty lacking. Once I get the army book I'll make a much better leader out of him. What you posted for the master looks good, however. Same for the Sorceress. I'm not familiar with the capabilities of Dark Elf mages so I figured if lvl 2 was an option, why not take it?
    Certainly, the mage with be moulded into a more offensive roll with 1500/2000 pt lists down the road.

    One of the problems I've got with your posted list (and it's not that I don't like it...) is the 20 man Warrior unit; the battalion simply doesn't have enough warriors (28 totall...grr) and I'd like to put off buying more until later. I'll certainly have at least one, maybe two 20 man blocks of 'em at 1500 pts.

    I noticed the Corsairs totally dissapeared. Not an issue, really, but why?

    Same for the bolt thrower. Back when I played Lizardmen (may they all die and burn...), Elf bolt throwers were devistating to my ranked warriors. One thing I hated about lizardmen was no war machines! I know the hydra is good, but at 1000-1500 pts I can only have one Rare which brings up the question: Which one should be taken?
    It seems to me the Hydra is a good flanking beastie with a no-so-bad ranged attack. On the other hand, war machines stick in my head as being remarkable assets...

    Off on a tangent here, I'm fairly certain I'll include a block of 15-20 "elite" DE footsoliders at 1500 pts. In other words, a block of Black Guard or Excecutioners. This, in turn, brings up another question: Which should I take? Taking both a unit of executioners and black guard at 1500 pts is unreasonable points-wise (IMO) not to mention obscenely expensive (curse those metal models...). From looking at the stats, Black Guard look a lot better for one pt more per warrior. On the other hand, EXCECUTIONERS LOOK AWESOME! If I'm going to shell out $80+ for a unit of elites, I'd like them to at least look nice on the table.

    Downside with excecutioners is striking last. With low T and save, I'd imagine I'll only ever get strikes in if I charge. If memory serves, there's a magic banner that makes me always strike first which would really help in that catagory. Even then, however, Black Guard just seem... better. Ideas?


    Yes, I did write too much.

  5. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by AVS Agent View Post
    Thanks for the feedback. I agree the master is pretty lacking. Once I get the army book I'll make a much better leader out of him. What you posted for the master looks good, however. Same for the Sorceress. I'm not familiar with the capabilities of Dark Elf mages so I figured if lvl 2 was an option, why not take it?
    Certainly, the mage with be moulded into a more offensive roll with 1500/2000 pt lists down the road.
    don't even bother with the sorceress until you hit larger point games. there isn't that much magic to be had (too point prohibitive) and with DE you'd want aggressive magic anyway.
    One of the problems I've got with your posted list (and it's not that I don't like it...) is the 20 man Warrior unit; the battalion simply doesn't have enough warriors (28 totall...grr)you could make your corsairs into musicians or champions for the warrior units. and I'd like to put off buying more until later. I'll certainly have at least one, maybe two 20 man blocks of 'em at 1500 pts.
    people either love warriors or corsairs, but rarely take both unless they take the corsairs with SSbanner and a unit of repeater crossbowmen.
    I noticed the Corsairs totally dissapeared. Not an issue, really, but why?

    Same for the bolt thrower. Back when I played Lizardmen (may they all die and burn...), Elf bolt throwers were devistating to my ranked warriors. One thing I hated about lizardmen was no war machines! I know the hydra is good, but at 1000-1500 pts I can only have one Rare which brings up the question: Which one should be taken?
    It seems to me the Hydra is a good flanking beastie with a no-so-bad ranged attack. On the other hand, war machines stick in my head as being remarkable assets...
    no offense, but you may not have known how to play your lizardmen. LM have the one of the best warmachines in the game : salamanders. As too your question - the Hydra will be near impossible for a 1k army to deal with, RBT probably more balanced but not a game breaker like the Hydra
    Off on a tangent here, I'm fairly certain I'll include a block of 15-20 "elite" DE footsoliders at 1500 pts. In other words, a block of Black Guard or Excecutioners. This, in turn, brings up another question: Which should I take? Taking both a unit of executioners and black guard at 1500 pts is unreasonable points-wise (IMO) not to mention obscenely expensive (curse those metal models...). From looking at the stats, Black Guard look a lot better for one pt more per warrior. On the other hand, EXCECUTIONERS LOOK AWESOME! If I'm going to shell out $80+ for a unit of elites, I'd like them to at least look nice on the table.
    black guard are easily the best elite choice alongside the cold one knights. Look at the book and you'll see why (stats, ItP, Elite Warriors rule and ability to take the ASF banner
    Heroes:
    Master
    > Cold one, lance, shield, heavy armor, SD cloakIf money is tight, get an extra box of CoK - you can make a Master from it and have 4 extra CoK for later and it's the same price as the silly metal model (nice model, just not worth it imo)
    Sorceress
    > Lvl 2 mage, 2 x Dispel scolls like I said, I wouldn't even bother with her til you hit 1500 at least

    Core:
    18 x DE Warriors
    > Full command
    10 x DE Warriors w/ RXBs
    > Shields
    15 x Corsairs
    > Full command

    Special:
    5 x Cold One Knights [Master goes here]
    > Full command

    Rare:
    R. Bolt Thrower

  6. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by AVS Agent View Post
    Thanks for the feedback. I agree the master is pretty lacking. Once I get the army book I'll make a much better leader out of him. What you posted for the master looks good, however. Same for the Sorceress. I'm not familiar with the capabilities of Dark Elf mages so I figured if lvl 2 was an option, why not take it?
    Certainly, the mage with be moulded into a more offensive roll with 1500/2000 pt lists down the road.

    One of the problems I've got with your posted list (and it's not that I don't like it...) is the 20 man Warrior unit; the battalion simply doesn't have enough warriors (28 totall...grr) and I'd like to put off buying more until later. I'll certainly have at least one, maybe two 20 man blocks of 'em at 1500 pts.

    I noticed the Corsairs totally dissapeared. Not an issue, really, but why?

    Same for the bolt thrower. Back when I played Lizardmen (may they all die and burn...), Elf bolt throwers were devistating to my ranked warriors. One thing I hated about lizardmen was no war machines! I know the hydra is good, but at 1000-1500 pts I can only have one Rare which brings up the question: Which one should be taken?
    It seems to me the Hydra is a good flanking beastie with a no-so-bad ranged attack. On the other hand, war machines stick in my head as being remarkable assets...

    Off on a tangent here, I'm fairly certain I'll include a block of 15-20 "elite" DE footsoliders at 1500 pts. In other words, a block of Black Guard or Excecutioners. This, in turn, brings up another question: Which should I take? Taking both a unit of executioners and black guard at 1500 pts is unreasonable points-wise (IMO) not to mention obscenely expensive (curse those metal models...). From looking at the stats, Black Guard look a lot better for one pt more per warrior. On the other hand, EXCECUTIONERS LOOK AWESOME! If I'm going to shell out $80+ for a unit of elites, I'd like them to at least look nice on the table.

    Downside with excecutioners is striking last. With low T and save, I'd imagine I'll only ever get strikes in if I charge. If memory serves, there's a magic banner that makes me always strike first which would really help in that catagory. Even then, however, Black Guard just seem... better. Ideas?


    Yes, I did write too much.
    Let me apologize for suggesting a Hydra in a 1,000pt game! I am being called a cheese-monkey when it comes to making army list that I am not even awared of... like that last time I fit in a Treeman into my 750 Wood Elf army for my local store tournament list ..

    Alright, back to the topic regarding your concern of the Corsairs.. First, ask yourself what would you like your core units and your special units to function? Dark Elves are very specialized just like every Elf armies out there (at least in my opinion they are). There are always 1 defensive unit, 1 offensive unit, and 1 supportive unit in each core/special category. Spearman is your defensive unit with their dirt cheap point cost per model, and the same amount of attacks as the Corsairs when they are charged. Corsair is your more offensive core unit, because they always have the same amount of attack when charging or being charged, on top of that and their capability to take a Frenzy banner which gives them all +1 attack. RxB warrior, Dark Riders, and Harpies would be your supportive unit.

    As for special choices, Black Guard is all hands down (at least both my hands), THE best defensive unit in the game when given an Always Strike First banner. Reason for that is because even the Dwarf Hammerer has Leadership 9 Stubborn but they will rarely get to strike before they get their faces smashed, but the Black Guards with ASF will always (very most likely with their insanely high initiative) gets to attack first with their game-breaking amount of attacks. Executioners are obviously your offensive unit, hard hitting units like these are best taken in 6 to 7 wide and 2 ranks deep (total of 12 - 14 models) for maximized damage and point perservation. Cold One Knights/Chariots are in my opinion, more of a supportive role. They can move fast, they can charge far, therefore they should be your flanker unit or kill-point combat res. support. Once the Spearman or Black Guard holds one unit in place, you are free to mess them up with these guys.

    As for rare choices.. there isnt much of a choice at all. Reaper Bolt Throwers are good, but they are also unreliable. 2 RBTs are a good amount for killing 1 or 2 knights or 4-6 foot troops every turn if your rolls are on the average, for (let's be honest here) the first 3 turns and after that, most units will be in combat... then your heavy investments will be rendered useless. War Hydra on the other hand, is worth every point... for that absurd low amount of point cost, you are whipping out 7 STR5 and 6 STR3 armour piercing attacks (with rerolls to hit too!!!)... In 2,000pts game, I would take 2 RBTs to shoot down flyers and 1 War Hydra to help out my Black Guards in combat.

    .. and yes, I wrote as much as you did.
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    First - yeah I didn't use my LM very well. Second, I did use a Salamander and they were ok, but not a war machine (only 12 or 18" range if I recall). Also, I was already planning on buying a box of COs instead of the hero. You know what they say about great minds....


    Moving on...

    Here's what I gather:

    > Black Guard beat Excecutioners any day when it comes to choosing elites.
    > Cold One Knights are another must.
    > When you can only have a hydra or a bold thrower, go with the hydra.
    > The magic threat isn't worth a scroll caddy at 1000 pts.

    Ok. Well, that means I'll get a hydra instead of two bolt throwers for my 1500 pt list and no awesmoe looking excecutioners :'(
    Is there any way I could use the excecutioner models as stand ins for Black Guard? Maybe some sort of conversion... They just look so much better than BG to me. hehe

    Now I really do have to get the army book.

    One more question on the COKs:
    How many should be included in a solid unit at 1500 pts (or 1k for that matter)? I'm afraid they will be the target of my opponents shooting from turn 1, even their nice save will not prevent a couple casualties. Perhaps then the better questionis, how can I protect my COKs from shooting? TY

  8. #7
    Ahhhhh.... nekochen's Avatar
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    All Knight units should be sized at 5-6 per unit (5 if you planning to attach a character).. only exception is the Bretonnians. It's not worth paying double amount of point just so you can buy that 1 extra rank bonus which would probably be lost from turn 1 by shooting/magic.

    Cauldron of Blood can provide one unit with 5+ ward save or +1 ATK, it could be extremly useful for your CoK or Black Guards.
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    Alrighty. I couldn't resist taking another stab at a 1k pt list before getting the army book (I really need an excuse to go to GW...). Here goes:

    1000 pts Dark Elves:

    Heroes: 160 pts
    Master on Cold One w/ some upgrades: c.160 pts

    Core: 272 pts
    20 x Dark Elf Warriors: 155 pts
    > Full command
    > Shields
    5 x Dark Riders: 117 pts
    > Repeater Crossbows
    > Musician

    Special: 392 pts
    5 x Cold One Knights: 175 pts
    > Full command
    14 x Black Guard [Two ranks of 7 or two ranks of 6 with some extra?]: 217 pts
    > Full command

    Rare: 175 pts
    > War Hydra: 175 pts

    That's 999 pts. Don't know what I'll give the Master, but from looking at other threads it seems like I can trick him out pretty well for 160 pts. No magic. No shooting to speak of. Whatdaya think?
    Last edited by AVS Agent; August 9th, 2008 at 23:19. Reason: Oops

  10. #9
    Ahhhhh.... nekochen's Avatar
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    I think ... it's a very nice list to start with.

    There is a tiny thing I would change... I would put the Master into unit of Black Guard so it may fit for 3 ranks of 5. I would also give the Black Guard the Standard of Hag Graef (Always Strike First), then I would also take out the Musician *** since it wouldnt matter with a unit like this - Stubborn LDR 9. The Master only needs a Heavy Armour, Pendant of Khaeleth (game-breaking ward save), and a Great Weapon (he'll be striking first with the ASF banner). This will put you at 998pts.

    *** if you bought the command group box, then you could put the musician in the back rank hiding amidst the other models. Remove him as first casualty so your opponent wouldnt notice.
    Last edited by nekochen; August 10th, 2008 at 05:22.
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    UPDATE:

    I've got the Dark Elf army book! Now I'm offically on the DE bandwagon lol

    I won't bother posting my "final" 1k pt list since it's pretty much the same just with the alterations nekochen mentioned. I have, however, made a 1500 pt list that I shall post tommorrow. Thanks for the help.
    Last edited by AVS Agent; August 11th, 2008 at 03:21.

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