Defensive line 1500 - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
    Senior Member Dire's Avatar
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    39 (x2)

    Defensive line 1500

    Vs Bretonnia, no magic.

    HEROES

    Master 194
    Heavy Armour; Enchanted Shield; Sea Dragon Cloack; Pendant of Khaeleth; Lance; Dark Pegasus

    Death Hag 175
    Rune of Khaine; Battle Standard Bearer; Standard of Hag Graef

    CORE UNITS

    5 Harpies 55

    10 Crossbowmen 105
    Guardmaster

    10 Crossbowmen 100

    SPECIAL UNITS

    15 (2x7+1) Black Guard 217
    Tower Master; Standard Bearer; Musician

    15 (2x7+1) Black Guard 217
    Tower Master; Standard Bearer; Musician

    13 (2x7-1) Executoniers 211
    Draich-Master; Standard Bearer; Musicianl Banner of Murder

    RARE UNITS

    Reaper Bolt Thrower 100

    Reaper Bolt Thrower 100

    Hold the line, Cold One meat!


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  3. #2
    Son of LO Manu_Forti's Avatar
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    117 (x6)

    Defensive lines in general dont work for Dark Elves. Especially not against a Bretonnian cavalry charge. You need to play to your strengths, which are Magic, Speed and agressiveness.. we arent tough and armoured Dwarves forming a brickwall line.

    You would only get 1-2 turns of shooting off before he charges you. Even with armour piercing now, RxBs still wont reap much of a toll on the cavalry. And when he does reach you, your RxB and Executioner units are weak points in your 'line', these units would get utterly steam rolled & probably allow him to overrun, which means you now have units of hard hitting cavalry *behind* your lines.. not a good thing.

    I would replace the RxB units & either the Master or Hag with some Magic (two level 2's). Magic defense is usually a weak point in most Bret lists, who spend most of thier points on Cav.
    Drop the Executioners.

    Youve done well to avoid taking Cold one units. Being 2" slower than Bret units, and also suffering from stupidity makes them very unreliable.

    Your Black guard are perfect for taking the charges but I'd fix their intended formation. Ranks of 7 is good for maximising attacks, but most Bret units will be three 25mm bases wide, meaning only five 20mm base infantry models will be in contact. With this in mind, make them 3 rows of 5.

    Beef up the harpy unit to 6 and possibly invest in a second unit. These will make excellent march blockers.
    Try to get in 1-2 units of Dark riders. they will be good for flanking and also give you a semi-safe place to put Sorceresses (if your sorceresses are on foot they will probably get charged and scewered. So its better to be mobile).

    Maybe consider replacing a Bolt thrower with a War Hydra. Bret's dont have the best Ld stats out there, and forcing a few terror tests could make a big difference.
    Last edited by Manu_Forti; September 10th, 2008 at 07:39.
    Dark Elves - Game #28 vs High Elves: Draw
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  4. #3
    Senior Member Dire's Avatar
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    Maybe I shall explain something. Suprisingly, the Death Hag joins (Oh my!) Executoniers. I do not understand from which side they are weak point of my army.

    And Xbowmen are going to flee through BG, using their ItP.

  5. #4
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    First of all, I agree with you dire - I simply cant see a brettonian charge breaking your line, unless you roll really poor.

    But I have a few comments:

    1) Since you are going to take the charges with the BGs when the crossbowmen flee, the guardmasters are REALLY a waste of points. You might aswell admid it - they are going to die in the first round if the enemy gets the charge! That will save you 28 points.

    2) Take the musicians out aswell. They are a waste of points - you arent going to flee anyway. Saves you 14 points.

    3) What about some scouts? I think they can be more helpful than harpies. Perhaps you could throw in those extra points there!

    4) I tend to agree that a hydra will do you more good than the bolt throwers. The rbts may run out of targets too quickly to earn back their points.

  6. #5
    stupidity just kicked in! zhaf's Avatar
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    Well a bret army can out maneuver you which often means that you'll get flank charged. A flank charged executioner unit even with ASF is a dead unit.

    RBTs may not win back so many VP that's true. But their psychological effect on the battlefield is far greater than a hydra. They'll effect where your opponent places his models and where he will be moving his units. So you have to take that into consideration as well. I can a sure you that no peg knights will be in LOS of those bolt throwers the first turn. That'll give you an edge on placing you other units.
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  7. #6
    Member p0lak's Avatar
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    truly believe hydra would be the better option because fear is a factor cuz when threy fail that charge u got its and they only got str3 attacks

  8. #7
    stupidity just kicked in! zhaf's Avatar
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    I wasn't stating that the bolt thrower is better I simply said that people shouldn't rule it out as both are great.

    But are you serious? A lance of 6 grail knights will fight with 5 of them, they get rank bonus, they're ItP, they get a 5+ ward on top of their 2+ save and have 2 attacks for each model. That is 10 S6 attacks and 5 S3 attacks That will definitely kill a hydra on the charge even with regen.
    Two bolt throwers can kill of 4-5 models depending on how they're placed before they can reach you.
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  9. #8
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    10 attacks, 5 hits, 3 wounds, 1,5 regen. Statistically 1,5 wound.

    It doesn't seem to make Hydra feel... well... dispossed. You know hwat I mean. The grail ones are going to understand that too...

    7 on 4+, 5 hits. 4 wounds. 1 failed.

    So, we have the same wounds or grails winning by one.
    But....

    Beastmasters - 3 hits, 1,5 wound. 0,5 passed armour test and 6+ ward may be as well ignored for these statisctics.

    That gives Hydra almost 1,5. Almost the same as Knights.
    Then Knights have us 8, hydra gets 7. But for that turn only. Will it reak? Maybe...

    And then they stick and die.

  10. #9
    stupidity just kicked in! zhaf's Avatar
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    do you play 40K? why do you only calculate the wounding numbers and ignore the rest? Ok Grail knights have 5+ ward and wound and hit on 3s so it's more likely that they deal 5 wounds say hydra saves 3 and that's 2 wiounds. and the grails fail one save. so the grails gets +1 for dealing more wounds, +1 for a standard, +1 for outnumbering (5 grails = 10 US). So they have now lost combat by 3. And as I said earlier bretonians flank charge a lot so if you take that into account they've won combat by 4. So try to roll break test with 2 dice and score 4 or less (or 5 or less if they didn't flank charge). I don't see that it's good at all. You flee and they pursue and you get destroyed. (because they roll one die more than you on the pursue roll they're more than likely to catch up with you)
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    Man, I hve writen that - they deal 3 wounds. Horses give'em 5 attacks, 2,5 hit and 2,5/6 wounds furthermore saved on 4+ and regenerated. It's about 2,5/24 almost 1/10.

    5 hits! Am I correct? If they have WS of 5 then it's 7 hits. Oh my, so they deal 5/4 wounds.
    Then regen. Most propobaly, 2 in total (i'm right and they do have WS of 5).

    So, if they have a Standard (which I NEVER saw), they have in total... +3. Against -1/-2. So they win combat by 1/2.

    That's not a lot.

    And later they are smashed. I really don't know how they can reach flank of Druchii centralpunch monster... Are you bretonnian or druchii player at all?

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