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I am playing in a doubles tourney, 1000 pts each, and we came up with a "DE enslaves the forest" theme for our army. Right now we are working on a combined DE + wood elf forest spirit only army list to support the theme.
So, for Wood Elves:
Branchwraith, +1 dispel dice sprite
Lvl 2 sorc, moonstone, wild rider upgrade with steed
5x wild riders with full command
For DE, still working this out but thinkiing along the lines of:
sea dragon cloak
20x warriors with shields
20x warriors with shields
5x cold one knights
This is an interesting combo here as you cna have lots of skirmishing, low toughness high shooty troops, decent cav and big stompy monsters to boot. Since the total value is 2000pts. is one of you allowed to take a lord? Also, you could make some nasty combos here that aren't really being taken advantage of. For example, you could put the standard of slaughter on the cold one knights and then throw the warbanner on the wild riders; I assume that you are putitng the spellsinger with the moonstone with the WR and thus can setup nice flank or rear charges. Two fear causing cav untis, one hititng fornt, other hitting back or flank, with an extra 1+d3 combat res ontop of everything else will autoreak almost anything. You have essentially no shooting in what could be the most shooty combo out there. And I forsee problem trying to figure out if you army is going monster and cav ground and pound, skirmishing disruptioin or static rez from the spearmen.
Essentially, the army is a little unfocused. I would suggest putitng your two lists together and determining which unti is best for the job. For example, in my opinion, dark riders are better than glade riders, and you should take at least one unit of them. I do like the WR, CoK combo, and the Treeman and Hydra combo however, though I would suggest removing the branchwraith for a BSB. Place him in one of the DE block units in between the two monsters. Also, you could replace one of the spearmen units with some nice stubborn blackgaurd, small untis, that you can screen with dryads. Also, have fun with playing the WE glade guard 'dance' with the units of dryads, though in this case you may be able to replace the guard with crossbowman. Finally, A second unit of harpies may be nice for additional marchblocking and warmaching removal (though if you take the Dark Riders, you might be ok with just the one.)
Well, sorry to ramble on for a while, but Ill try to help as I can. Im really more of a WE player; but keep in mind that your two armies will share very similar strengths and weaknesses.
Thanks for the great response.
I am an experienced mniantures gamer (40k), but pretty new to Fantasy so I am not be understanding everything you are saying.
First, we can have one lord in the list. And the plan was to put the spellsinger with the wold riders, so they could pop into a forest and do nastry things in a opponents backfield or flank.
We built the fluff for this combo first, and are now trying to back into an effective combo list. "Dark elves enslave a part of the foerst, and bend the trees to their evil bidding..." kind of thing. So, by choice, I am limiting my WE army selection to forest spirits. That menas no glade riders, no archers, no war dancers, etc.
Frankly, limiting my army choices has probably beena good thing, as I am bound to agaonize over to many combination choices.
Mosnter and Cav ground pound would be a good description of the list so far - defensive magik, no shooting. We culd easily change that - we talked about the DE player goign all shooty for example.
A note on the team tourney rules - my characters cant join his units, and vica versa. Banners with universal effects will work but otherwise, the lists play as two independant 1000 point lists.
We would love to get dark riders into the lsit. And an assasin. But the points go fast when you only have 1000 to spend! We are now talking about droppping the manticore, putting the DE character into a block of troops or on a cold one.
Your continued help is greatly appreciated.
So, Ive been thinking more about your list; I think you need some sort of shooting. In Warhammer you dont need to dominate every phase but it is highly advisable to have proficieny in each. Also, I dont really like the Branchwraith, in my opinion they arent good enough magically or in combat and only really work if youre running a forest spirit only army. If you can take a Lord, I think you should, otherwise you will be at a disadvantage. I was trying to fit in a Lvl 4 spellweaver with calaingor's stave so that you could spam Tree singing over and over and still get to use moonstone but the points are tigh...
Spellsinger Lvl 4, glamourweave, elven steed, Calaingor's Stave, Moonstone, Dispell
5 Wild Riders, Musician and Standard
Lvl 2 Sorceress, Dark Steed, Focus Familiar, Dispell Scroll
19 Warriors, shields, Full Command
5 Dark Riders, musician, repeaters,
5 CoK, mus, standard, Banner of Cold Blood
The basic setup would be the Hydra, warriors and Treeman setting up in the middle with perhaps the Treeman in some trees so he can treesurf around the board. The Spellweaver sets up with the WR in some woods if their are woods on your opponents side and the lvl 2 dark elf sets up with the dark riders. With shades and dryads running disruption. Of note, you can use the Moonstone in your opponents move phase so you can setup a charge in your next move phase.
Also, the reason I picked the focus familiar for the dark elf is that she can run around and hide behind things with her horse while placing the focus familiar on the opposit side and still blast stuff. If you are going to run two monsters in this list then I highly suggest running a BSB so that you can reroll, nothig is worse than losing a combat with your Treeman by 1 and having him fail his stubborn roll and get chased down by rats or zombies or something. Also, keep in mind that because the hydra and handlers count as a skirmishing unit they can move through difficult terrian without penalty (but cannot charge, weird specific rules for them I know).
My main problem with the above list is that the WE player doesnt have much to do, they really only have 3 untis, 1 monster and a character. You coudl try replacing the spellweaver with a Treeman ancient instead which would free up more points for say another unit and a Lvl 2 Spellsinger. Finally, I dont know as I built the concept of this list very quickly, you will need to find some spare points for the BSB as he is a little bare right now.
Keep in mind that you have to use every combo you can in a doubles tournament,and you could run agianst some rather nasty ones too. For instance, and jsut off the top of my head, you could take a Warriors of Chaos and Deamons of CHhaos list.
A WoC BSB with Doom Totem (-1 LD)
A WoC Sorceror with Lore of Slaanesh or Lore of Tzeetch to get Pandemonium
A DoC Hearld of Slaanesh BSB with Great Icon of Despair (-2LD)
The Masque (-d3 to LD)
Suddenly you can make almost any enemy unit on the table -4 to -6 on any LD test. Throw in some terror and fear causers and suddenly the enemy army starts to fall apart.
Hope the list building goes well!
Continued thanks for your help.
I am not convinced the treesurfing thing is going to work. Adepticon tends to use custom scenarios, and I cant count on the pitched battle rule allowing me to always bring my own tree stand to all three games. Plus, terrain there is give and take - most boards have a woods on both sides (remembering from last year) but several where rocky, dessert, etc. I don’t want to tie that many points up into a strategy that might be totally wasted depending on scenario and board draw.
I like your DE list allot, but as you said, the WE list seems pretty boring. If I dump the branchwraith, downgrade the lord to level two with moonstone in with the wild riders, that gives me some points for more dryads again. Three or four units of dryads can be pretty intimidating.
I didn’t realize the moonstone can be used in the opponents turn - where does it say that?
The treeman ancient is a good idea, I will run some lists with him. I assume you would do the always hit on 6"s in a challenge and extra dispel dice spites?
I thought about taking the treeman out and putting trreekin in - four of them , alongside a block of DE warriors could be nasty - but the idea of two terror causing monsters on the board is pretty hard to give up.
We talked about how ourchoice of lists for a team tourney might be on the soft side - the chaos / demons list below is just plain scary, not sure what we would do against that. You have convinced me the BSB is a necessity.
I am also not convinced that treesurfing will work (it tends to be hit or miss anyway), especially considering that you are going to Adepticon and not a local store tourney, the terrain might not be to your advantage. So, I think ditching the spellweaver is a good idea.
I dont know what to say about treekin really, as I have actually never used them in a game. They are highly vulnerable to shooting and magic, and manuverability can be a problem as they dont skirmish. I could see them working well in an eternal guard army, but given the manuverability and speed of your remaining units, I would suggest leaving the treekin for the smaller bretheren or something else.
You could include another unit of wildriders instead, perhaps giving them the warbanner or Faoghir. I have used that tactic in the past, charge a unit with two units of WR, one with warbanner the other with Faoghir. I figure they will have 4 static rez (or 3 if I can reduce them through shooting) and I will have 3 as well (numbers, banner, warbanner) so it will come down to casulties, which I should win on the charge. And, as an added bonus you can form the fast cav however you want before the trun you charge to ensure that both units hit.
I was alos thinking about proxying certain thigns from the DE list to replace models from the WE list to represent teh WE perverting the forest as epr your theme. For ex, you could include Witch Elves as Wardancers, Dark Riders as Glade Riders (though that will get confusing if you already have a unit of Dark RIders on the table) and possibly beastmasters with whips on warhawks instead of warhawk riders. Of these I think the witchelves is the best as they are a similar type of unit, and if they were skirmishing, nobody would confuse them for actual witch elves.
This is from the canadian errata becasue i coudlnt find the US one right now, but im sure theyre the same.
It says: "Can you use the Moonstone of the Hidden Ways in the enemy Movement phase? Can you use it to teleport the cahracter/unit out of combat?" "Yes and yes."
I would strongly advise printing out the errat and bringing it with you and depedning on how sportsman the tourney is, possibly advising your opponent that you may intend to use the Moonstone in such a way at the beginning. I know that takes the surprise out of it if youre using closed lists, but I can imagine some very unhappy opponents when your units teleport in their phase and charge on your own without them knowing it is possible.
By the way, Im gonna want battlereports and such now
Agreed on the treekin, i will leave them at home.
Love the idea of crossing the dark elves and WE model ranges - perhaps a beatsmaster "herding the trees along", modeled on an oversized Dryad base. I was already planning to do chains on the treeman, but adding the beastmasters (just for fluff, no game impact) with a torch moving behind it sounds perfect! Perhaps I could use a DE model for the spellsinger as well, or put the WE mage onto a "dark Unicorn". Could be a fun painting opportunity.
Battle reports? No problem!
I think you need to go back and look on GW's site about the moonstone - that post appears to be old. The latest version, got to through the GW CN site, not through your link, says it CAN NOT be used in the enemy's movement phase. Seems their errata was errat-ed!
Played a test game this weekend versus Vampire counts. Through no fault of the list, I got charged by a flying dragon / lord in turn two, it got behind our lines and that was the game. I dont feel like we really tested the list, just tested my obviously incompetent generalship.
Still, this combo seems to be fraught with challenges - little magic, no shooting. If we had run even a couple of units of archers, it could have been an entirely different story.