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2250 Point Balanced, Competitive

1K views 10 replies 3 participants last post by  notabot187 
#1 · (Edited)
G'day

After looking over a few forums and finding out some information on the Dark Elves and how the army works I have created a balanced all comers list I'd like to get some advise on. Here it is:

LORDS

Supreme Sorceress
Level 4 Wizard
Black Staff
Seal of Ghrond
1 Null Talisman
360 Points

HEROES

Master
Great Weapon
Heavy Armour
Deathmask
138 Points

Master
Heavy Armour
Shield
Cold One
3 Null Talismans
151 Points

Sorceress
2 Dispel Scrolls
150 Points

CORE

10 Dark Elf Repeater Crossbowman
100 Points

10 Dark Elf Repeater Crossbowman
100 Points

5 Dark Riders
Repeater Crossbows
Musician
117 Points

5 Dark Riders
Repeater Crossbows
Musician
117 Points

5 Harpies
55 Points

5 Harpies
55 Points

SPECIAL

10 Shades
Great Weapons
Bloodshade
198 Points

Dark Elf Assassin
Additional Hand Weapon
Rending Stars
Cry of War
Manbane
166 Points

5 Cold One Knights
Musician
Standard Bearer
Banner of Murder
184 Points

RARE

War Hydra
175 Points

War Hydra
175 Points

Army Total: 2241 Points

The Supreme Sorceress and the first Master will be in the Shades unit with the Assassin. The army will pretty much revolve around this power house unit. My Cold One Knights with be joined by the second Master and they will be my answer to other heavy hittting foes. Dark Riders will haunt the flanks of my enemy. The Harpies will pick off lonely enemy wizards or war machines. Hydras do what they do best and the Crossbowman will provide some ranged support, my Sorceress will probably hide with the Crossbowman.

Im not very experienced so please pick this list apart and point out its faults.
 
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#2 ·
That shades unit is no powerhouse. 10 shades with (whom are T3 and have no armor) with 2 characters and an assassin, 1 of whom is a caster, means the entire unit is way too expensive for how little it will accomplish. (the unit is averaging 66 points per model) The character's builds are pretty sub par, and you don't have enough bodies or other defense to protect it. If you want to build a shade star unit, there are much better ways.

Sorry to be so harsh, but I can't really say that that unit can do anything.

Cold one Knights don't need armor piercing. The opponent is already testing at -3 and -1, (lance and cold one) Why spend so many points for such a small thing? That banner is more useful on things like corsairs and witches (where -1 armor is great)

3 null stones is a waste, if they have a war machine, they will just shoot that unit instead.

You have way too many points in useless or unneeded upgrades, with those savings you can fit whole units.

The good news is the list outline is actually fine, the problem is with the execution. Here is a more optimized configuration with what you have here:

Supreme sorceress: sac dagger, Lvl4 ~ 285
Sorceress: tome of furion, dispel scroll, Lvl2 ~ 175
Master: general, Cold One, heavy armor, lance, shield, SDC, seal of ghrond ~ 144
Assassin: rending stars, manbane ~ 145

10 RxB ~ 100
10 RxB ~ 100
5 Dark riders: RxB, musician ~ 117
5 Dark riders: RxB, musician ~ 117
20 Warriors, full command, shields ~ 155
5 harpies ~ 55
5 harpies ~ 55

10 shades: great weapons ~ 180
5 CoKs: no command ~ 135
5 CoKs: no command ~ 135

War hydra ~ 175
War hydra ~ 175

The shades scout, are meant for shooting, but if a good charge is available then go for it. The assassin is the bare min "bolt thrower" configuration. He goes with the shades for some scouting fun. The master goes into one of the knight units, he is the general, but since the army is a mobile one, having him riding forward means his LD bubble will be in more useful locations. The SS goes into the warriors and stabs them for power. The regular sorceress is stuck in the crossbows, or wherever else her spells declare she should be.

I dropped the foot master, since he really serves no purpose. If you put him in the shades, they lose an ability that is important, and there is no other foot unit he should be in.

This list has more bodies, more magic, and more combat capable units. Its points are spread out all over the place, so there isn't any obvious "kill this unit and win". Other than the fact it only has one ranked unit (which doesn't want to get in combat since it is a dagger dice bank), it is pretty balanced.
 
#3 · (Edited)
Army List Amendment

Okay i have revisited this list and changed it up a little bit.

LORDS

Supreme Sorceress
Level 4 Wizard
Black Dragon
Lifetaker
Focus Familiar
Pendant of Khaeleth
670 points

HEROES

Sorceress
Level 2 Wizard
Tome of furion
Dispel Scroll
175 points

Master (General)
Shield
Cold One
Armor of Eternal Servitude
137 points

CORE

(10) Dark Elf Repeater Crossbowman
100 points

(10) Dark Elf Repeater Crossbowman
100 points

(5) Dark Riders
Repeater Crossbows
Musician
117 points

(5) Dark Riders
Repeater Crossbows
Musician
117 points

SPECIAL

(5) Shades
Great Weapons
Bloodshade
108 points

Dark Elf Assassin
Additional Hand Weapon
Rending Stars
Manbane
151 points

(5) Cold One Knights
Dread Knight
Ring of Hotek
Musician
Standard Bearer
200 points

Cold One Chariot
100 points

Cold One Chariot
100 points

RARE

War Hydra
175 points

ARMY TOTAL

2250 points

This list too me seems alot more hard hitting then the other ones. Please C&C.
 
#4 ·
I think the Srocerous on black dragon is maybe the wrong direction to go here. the combination just doesnt seem rite for a competative list, having a good combat monster and a vunerable expensive character. It may seem daft to say but all it needs is a few lucky randomised shots from somthing as simple as skink blowpipes and your socerous finds her W save is only a 3-, and thats not counting any poisend attacks with which you will not get a save against. but thats probably worst senario.

1) dragon although tough suffers being a large target, +1 to hit, and the model itself is on a big base making it hard to manover especialy when your not looking to charge in anywhere but simply utilise the fly movment.
2) it may have a g breath weapon but it means you have to expose yourslef to counter attacks. i have found from experiance that dragons like other big monsters and daemons are a turn 3 charge unit, hiding up untill that point. even with the familiar it may become very hard to hide and cast.

it just seems like there are too many roles for this character to be concentrating on.

instead i sugest taking a dark pegasus. yes its not nearly as robust as the dragon but you get the movement at a fraction of the price, S5 on the charge ideal for taking down warmachines if you feel you have to charge in somwhere, and is not a large target. To this extent i would even sugest taking Morathi in your list unless you want to use a different law to dark magic.

-She has 3 attacks which are killing blow on the charge at S5, + 3 from here special pegasus.
-Knows all the Dark magic spell and gets +1 to casting rolls.
-Has a 4+Ward and magic res 2.
-Can take one arcane and one enchanted item from the list.

and she still comes in cheaper than your socerous on dragon, but if you want a different law i would still go with the favoured DP.

Change your master to a bland bsb, with all the Armour upgrades and Pok, maybe SoM for some hitting power and keep him in your COKs. he can often accept challengs from the hardest characters and daemons, and stay alive, whilst acting as an anchor for your force with his banner.

If you can get 20pts anywhere give your Crossbowmen shields. it means they ahve 5+ against shooting and 4+ in combat. invaluable.

Drop the bloodshade for another shade, and i would even consider getting rid of the great weapons. unless you intend on getting the charge in anywhere with them they are points wasted. especialy if your taking an assasin for shooting.

if after all that you have points for another hydra i sugest putting one in your list as your opponenet may be able to drop one before it can get into combat but will realy struggle against 2.
 
#5 ·
To OP:

Why oh why are your running a decent amount of magic AND Ring of Hotek?! You don't need it for magic defense. 5 dispel and a scroll will get the job done quite well. If you really want more defense, take seal of ghrond somewhere. Ring of Hotek is both unreliable, and screws you over too.

Full command for CoKs is pointless and expensive. They should be charging units too small to have static res, so don't need a banner. There is no point to challenging with them, so don't need a champ, and they shouldn't need to break a tie or boost leadership to rally, so don't need a musician. The times they should be charging a static res unit are when they combo charging with another unit. 45 points on upgrades that are only marginally useful when you use the unit wrong is a waste. The ring I explained above. CoKs should at most have 1 upgrade, and only if it because you had an odd number of points left over. With the savings you can add another body to the the unit, and still have left over points.

The blood shade on the shades is somewhat useless. He gets a boosted BS and an extra attack. For the same price you could just get 2 more shots and an extra attack by adding another body to the unit. If the units gets in a challenge then they are in the wrong place. Really no purpose for him with a small unit like this.

Saltrock36 was correct that the dragon is the wrong mount for a SS. Dark peg or dark steed is better. Same thing goes with the tome of furion wizard. give her a dark steed.

Unlike the previous poster I do NOT recommend Morathi. She costs well over 150 points more than an SS on dark peg, and is limited by lores she can take. Morathi essentially pays for combat ability and +1 to cast. Since only the desperate or dumb would send in their caster lord to combat something, those are points poorly spent.

Saltrock36:

How is paying 20 points for shields on units that still won't survive shooting or combat invaluable? Most shooting that matters is going to blow right through a 5+ save. Even if it is the junk bows that some armies get, a 5+ isn't going to save much of anything. In combat a 4+ sounds nice until you realize that you have no combat res, probably won't kill anything, will lose wounds, and get run down. Crossbows units are distractions. They really don't kill all that much, don't cost much, but the opponent still has to honor them. You don't need them to survive, so save the points on them and expect them to die.
 
#6 · (Edited)
Shields on crossbow units are always worth it if you have the points. A save is a save no matter what the chances of rolling it is, and when your opponent is throwing those little shots or magic missiles at the unit to get it under unit strength 5 to stop it taking a table quarter, being able to fall back on any kind of save is better than just removing a model.

An just the other day shields did the world of good on my unit. seeing a wraith unit getting ready to charge my bolt throwers i ranked my unit up in 2 ranks of 5, then next turn charged them. although i couldnt hit them (etherial), it meant i had a rank an outnumber, and when it came to saves i then rolled 2 6s saving any wounds winning combat by 2.

when you learn how to use units to thier full potential then you can see the worth of spending a little extra to get a big payback.

Sending Morrathi into sugested war machine crews isnt such a terrible idea either. 6 S5 attacks on the charge with hatred, 3 with killing blow at WS5, thier is few war machine crews that can hope to combat that, and if you were taking the focus familiar you can be in combat, and then still cast using the marker as it states in its rules.

the only real bad part which i had already pointed out and notabot187 could only reiterate was that she is is stuck with Dark Magic.
 
#7 · (Edited)
Yeah,I don't like Special Characters much so their out of the picture. I know the dragon isn't the most competitive choice, but i also want to have fun with my list. So I really want to keep it, but here is a list i could use if i must sacrifice it.

LORDS

Supreme Sorceress
Level 4 Wizard
Black Staff
Pendant of Khaeleth
350 points

HEROES

Sorceress
Level 2 Wizard
Dispel Scroll
160 points

Master (General)
Shield
Cold One
Armor of Eternal Servitude
137 points

Master (Battle Standard Bearer)
Heavy Armour
Shield
Cold One Chariot
Seal of Ghrond
231 points

CORE

(10) Dark Elf Repeater Crossbowman
100 points

(10) Dark Elf Repeater Crossbowman
100 points

(5) Dark Riders
Repeater Crossbows
Musician
117 points

(5) Dark Riders
Repeater Crossbows
Musician
117 points

SPECIAL

(5) Shades
Great Weapons
90 points

Dark Elf Assassin
Additional Hand Weapon
Rending Stars
Manbane
151 points

(5) Cold One Knights
135 points

Cold One Chariot
100 points

Cold One Chariot
100 points

RARE

War Hydra
175 points

War Hydra
175 points

ARMY TOTAL

2243 points

I don't like this list as much as the last but this may be a bit more competitive. Im just not sure where to put my Supreme Sorceress and Sorceress, i might just hide them with the Crossbowman. Tell me what you think.
 
#8 ·
Looks nice. A very hard hitting force. Lore of Shadows may serve this list best as you may be able to obtain movement spells like wolf hunts.

One addition, put a Sea Dragon Cloack on your lord as it will add 1 to his armour save in combat. allowing him a 1+ armour save.

I used to run my assasin the same as you have yours now but in the end i dropped the extra hand weapon as i never realy got into combat. the extra points will give you the option of a SDC on your other master.

I see you kept the great weapons, well each to thier own, it will certainly add some punch if you decide to charge a war machine crew or the flank of light cavalry etc, an excellent choice for flank charge or rear support seems as they are WS 5 with hatred and now S5 also.

Actualy if you make anymore changes (deffinatly go for SDC on general first) but tome of furion on your Sorceress will help in getting the spells you want.

One last note; be careful with your general as you will find him very suseptable to the ever increasing appearance of Killing Blow in armies, regeneration and armour save being ignored by it.
 
#9 ·
I think i might be posting a few too many armylists, but i'm at home all day today. Here is one other list i made which i like the most.

LORDS

Supreme Sorceress
Level 4 Wizard
Black Dragon
Tome of Furion
Focus Familiar
Pendant of Khaeleth
655 points

HEROES

Sorceress
Level 2 Wizard
Seal of Ghrond
165 points

Master (General)
Cold One
Armor of Darkness
Deathpiecrer
150 points

CORE

(10) Dark Elf Repeater Crossbowman
100 points

(10) Dark Elf Repeater Crossbowman
100 points

(5) Dark Riders
Repeater Crossbows
Musician
117 points

(5) Dark Riders
Repeater Crossbows
Musician
117 points

(5) Harpies
55 points

(5) Harpies
55 points

SPECIAL

(5) Cold One Knights
Standard Bearer
Standard of Slaughter
186 points

Cold One Chariot
100 points

Cold One Chariot
100 points

RARE

War Hydra
175 points

War Hydra
175 points

ARMY TOTAL

2250 points

2 Hyrdas and a Dragon probably won't win me many friends. What you think?
 
#10 ·
If your determined on the dragon then yes this is a good list.

your SS needs changing still though as you have 2 arcane items (Tome of Furion and Focus Familiar). Keep the Familiar.

I'd swqap seal of ghrond fo a dispel scroll. you will find it much more usefull.

Give your Master; Heavy armour, Shield, Sea Dragon Cloak, and a cold one and you already have a 1+ armour save, so you can drop Armour of darkness.

You could then possibly give him the Seal of Ghrond and Sword of Might for the extra dispel dice, or even a Null Talisman for magic res 1 on him and the unit heis with, then spend the extra points on a magic weapon.

It may be worth sacrificing the shield in this case for 2+ armour save and taking the Crimson Death so you are always S6. I have found this very useful against units that dont flee combat like undead and daemons so that even after the charge you still have somthing hitting with some real punch.

Hope this helps a little.
 
#11 ·
I never understand why people give sorceresses the seal when they have a master that could wear it instead.

The armor you gave that master is completely and utterly pointless on a cold one master. You can get a 1+ MUCH cheaper buy using non magic gear. Cold one is a 5+, heavy armor brings it to 3+, shield to 2+, and sea dragons cloak brings it to 1+. 15 points LESS for the same save and free up magic budget for him? It is a no brainer.

Your really don't need magic weapons on him anyways, and the one you chose is an awful lot of points for KB. Give him a lance and call it a day. Your opponent is already getting quite a few points for killing him, might as well make him cheap as possible. He isn't geared up for challenges, so killing blow won't really work to well when you are properly using CoKs (outflanking and combo charges).

Here is how I would run the master: Lance, heavy armor, SDC, shield, seal of ghrond, cold one ~ 144

Here is how I would run the 2nd wizard: dark steed, tome of furion, lvl 2, dispel scroll ~ 187

As for the black dragon SS ~ black dragon, focus familiar, lvl 4, pendant of Khalieth ~ 640

It ends up being 1 point over what you spent, but it is legal, has a scroll, and the second wizard is MUCH more flexible, with having 3 spells and a fast mount. The general suffers a bit, but he is just meant to give the CoKs some extra punch and provide forward leadership. (as opposed to the SS flying about). He has the seal to prevent one from losing too much magic defense from just one lost character.

If you need to free up the points, dark rider musicians aren't strictly needed. They are nice to have, but a luxury. With general being mobile, there is a good chance they could even be close enough to benefit. Either that or down grade the CoK's banner to banner of cold blood or a war banner. Standard of slaughter is kinda nice, but 1/3 of the time it is just an expensive war banner. Add in the fact that it only works on the charge, and I am not too thrilled with it.
 
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