Welcome to Librarium Online!
Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!
Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!
hey whats up guys, been back on the board a bit and made a few tweaks to my previous list, just wonderin if you guys think these are for the better. Any constructive criticism is or ideas is wanted, just try not to slay me with your knowledge. im not really lookin to play in a tournament anytime soon so im just playin for fun.
-I like the dark elf magic, monsters and stealthy units-
supreme sorceress-lv 4, focus familar
sorceress-lv 2 tome of furion
noble-lance, armour of darkness, manticore
noble-heavy armour, shield, sdc, lance, cold one
warriors*20-shields, standard, champ
warriors*20-shields, standard, champ
cold one knights*5-champ, standard, warbanner
shades*5-additional hand weapons
comes to an even 2000, looks good on paper but not sure how it would handle since I have an uber amount of points in my characters. My thought is that its not that bad cause the main points there is the manticore and hes another big monster so its cool with me. Ive found that in my previous list the single big threat(manticore) is a shooting magnet, so i added another so shooting is split(war hydra) and added an additional unit of shades for some war machine hunting. What do you guys think?
so your warriors are warriors only, no RXboWS? Your army is pretty weak on shooting, and that is the core of the DE army.
I'd drop one unit of shades for Harpies.
I'd find the points for a Repeating bolt thrower or a second War hydra and drop the manticore. It's high T and Regeneration do more.
yes, i know that there is almost no shooting in this list, but in my opinion shooting doesnt have to be the core of a dark elf army, im more on the idea that maneurverability is the key. This is is made of predominantly fast units and i think some stationary repeater bolt throwers would almost be left behind when my army advances. Especially with the new eternal hatred rule, and the speed of most of my units im gonna get the charge off and do more damage.
Also, im very reluctant to even put in a hydra in my list, to me they seem super cheap for their price and i almost see it as unfriendly cause they are so hard to kill for the points they cost. There is no way i would put in two, so the double hydra move isn't gonna work out.
other than the lack of shooting is there any major problems with it?
TBH I don't really see the lack of shooting. 20 shots a turn from dark riders and 20 from shades is a respectable number, and the chariot has bows too. Crossbow warriors are overrated anyways, they have horrible hit chances the fires 3 turns, where first turn they often have to move and shoot over half, so they hit on 6s, and turns 2 and 3 they often hit on 5s. If you are fortunate you get a couple of turns of hitting on 4s, but only if your opponent is a turtle or can't close. Crossbow Warriors force the army into a line where the enemy can concentrate force towards. DE do much better with a scattered or disorganized enemy.
On the other hand, shades are usually able to get within half early, and have upgraded BS. Dark riders are able to move quickly into half range, and are mobile enough to dance around the enemy keeping him from concentrating. Either of these units often get much higher hit percentages. So for 80 points you get 5 shades who hit twice or more as often as 100 points of warriors (and are harder to hit with missile fire). Or for 110 you get 5 DR who can almost always get their shots, often at higher chances of hitting, AND fulfill the other roles of fast cav.
For the original poster:
The master on the cold one is not needed. The good news is that you need to drop a character anyways to stay legal. Manitcores with masters on them cost an additional hero slot. So only 3 heroes and a Manticore at 2K.
Also since your cold ones are going to lose the master, there is no point of giving them ANY command. (and TBH there rarely ever is even with characters) It saves quite a few points and you don't sacrifice as much as you would think. Knights aren't supposed to charge into the front, so you don't need much to win with flank charge.
The 2 blocks or warriors aren't the greatest. Make one of 25 with the war banner. Invest in a units 12-18 black guard. If you want an anvil for anvil hammer action (which is what this list is trying to be) you need an anvil up to the job.
Here is something I cooked up:
SS: black staff, lvl 4
sorceress: tome, lvl 2, dark steed.
master on manticore, pendant of khaeleth, lance and HA shield SDC.
5 DR w/RxB
5 DR w/RxB
25 warriors: FC war banner
12 BG, banner, ASF banner.
5 CoKs, no upgrades
9 shades, no upgrades
It comes out to exactly 2k. This is not a make friends list, but it is pretty decently balanced from shooting, combat, and magic perspective.
It is set up for pairing off units that compliment. Their is 4 hammers: manticore, CoKs, chariot, and hydra. There is 2 flanking bait units: dark riders. There is 2 anvil units: the warriors and BG. Pair the hammer up with the complimenting companion unit, and go to town.
For magic chillwind and Word of pain are the most important spells most of the time. Stopping shooting and winning combat when the primary plan doesn't work is key.
Shades are in one group since often there isn't enough spots to hide in, and there definitely isn't enough special slots to have 2 units. GW aren't required to kill their intended prey.
O wow, yeah, thanks for catchin that manicore rule, i remembered it being in the last book but there wasn't an astrich and little blurb at the bottom so i thought they did away with the hero slot that it takes up. No matter, it freed up some points for some cool items so it worked out. I changed up my list a bit to fit this but i didn't end up changing the model count at all really. i didnt add another unit because frankly i dont have the models but also i really like this list and it seems to have alot of flexibility. here is new list, please check to make sure its legal and any last minute comments are great, thanks guys.
Supreme sorceress-lv 4, focus familar
sorceress-lv 2, tome of furion
master-manticore, lance, enchanted shield, hvy armour, sdc,
pendent of khaeleth
warriors*20-shields, standard, champ, warbanner
warriors*20-shields, standard, champ, standard of cold blood
cold one knights*6-champ
shades*6-additional hand weapons
shades*6-additional hand weapons
As you can see i changed my items on my master on manticore, the save now comes out to a 2+ instead of 1+ but i ended up grabbin that pendent. Also, i added some cool magic banners to my warrior blocks, allowing them to become more of an anvil unit. The cold one knights lost their banner and hero but gained 1 rank and file guy, also the shade units bumped up 1 guy each and gave second unit the extra hand weapons.
and this is a 'Take-On-All-Comers' type army list, where you don't know what you are going up against save that it is also would be at 2000 points?
Off the top of my head.....and this is vs a "Take on All Comers" list vs.....
Truth be told, I would be relieved to see this list, as you would be going up against a Grey Seer on a Screaming bell, lots of troops including attached Ratling Guns, WarpFire Thrower teams, and some other stuff. Possibly some rat ogres, have been mixed on them.
The Gutter Runners I had would be largely useless as I would have a hard time really putting them to use vs this army list.
Your Shades and your manticore person would have to go after my Lightning Cannon and other stuff in order to prevent it from taking out the Hydra. You would have to also target my WarpFire Thrower as they could also stop the regeneration from the Hydra.
I usually have the Grey Seer and usually another warlock in the army list; magically I feel like both of us could do a lot of damage to each other and it would come down to whom gets the better die rolling.
Vs the Lizardmen, although I have never used them in 7th Edition.........
In theory, this army list seems like it would do REALLY bad vs them. Depends on if there is a Slann in the Army or not. I don't see your Dark Elf warriors beating back Saurus's. The Chariot and the Cold Ones could not attack the Saurus's on their own and would need to hit them at the same time as the Warriors in order to have the Unit Strength to prevail and with the LM's cold blooded, their odds of staying in the fight are always better that they are not going to break and then you have a major problem if COK and/or Chariot are still tied up with a unit that did not break.
Well you kind of have to combo charge with rank and file and flank with a hard hitter with any army to break a lizard block. Sure the warriors can't compete against lizards warriors, but then again how big a points difference is there? Lizards often don't have to points to pay for a very robust screen, so if the screen goes down early they are very vulnerable to being out flanked. Lizards are one of the harder matches for DE, being T4 and good armor. So it is going to be a matter of if the DE general is better than the Lizards general.
As for skaven, are you talking the old book, that no longer matters, or the new book? My personal experience is that it isn't hard for even an non optimal DE list as this to beat them. DE have 2 anti shooting spells, and the ability to chew through the low stat blocks by a large enough margin to make them have to test at a decent negative. Sure his list could be optimized and have a better matchup, but it is still going to be on the skaven players plate to try and beat this. (the bell last book isn't as scary as you make it out to be).
It looks fine for doing well in casual/semi competitive arena.