2250 Dark Elf Friendly; no characters - Whole lotta fail

**cthulhu_fred** · January 15th, 2010 21:01

The Never-Victorious Army

Warriorsx24; Shield; FC
Xbowx10
Xbowx10
Corsairx13; FC; H.Bows; Dualies for Champ
Ridersx8; Champ & Music; X-bows
Harpiesx5
Harpiesx5
Hydra
Witch Elvesx10
C.O. Knightx5
Sorceress Wiz2; Horse; Staff of Sorcery; Talisman of Protection
Sorceress Wiz2; Pearl of Infinite Bleakness; Sacrificial Dagger
Assassin 2nd H.W.; H-bow; Rune of Khaine; Touch of Death; Black Lotus
Master BSB; Scourge; X-bow; SD Cloak; Banner of Hag Graef; H. Armor
Dreadlord X-bow; Shield; SD Cloak; Cold One; Armor of Eternal Servitude; Deathpiercer; Null Talisman

Summary
The name really sums it up; in the last year of play, my W/L/D stands at 2/19/3. The wins were the first matches my group played at 1000 points and named chars (Lokir kicked ass and took names); and the draws were incomplete matches ended before an obvious winner was reached. My primary opponent plays Dwarfs (generally 3-5 Arty, 1-2 units of gunners, an anvil, and some tar pits), though I occasionally get matched up against High & Wood Elfs. With a track record as stated, I'm eager to consider any advice that can be offered for increasing the survivability of the troops.

Unit Strategies
The spear act as the Core of the army; they're the central block which the rest of the army situates around. My B.S.B. is attached to this unit, giving them ASF (useful for giving them a fair chance against the HElves), and providing a handful of S4 AP attacks to help boost CR. The Sacrificial dagger Sorc also goes with them to boost her summoning as needed and the morale of the unit via the Pearl. 50% of the time I'll add the assassin to this unit as well again to add CR via mulching troops or as a player killer in challenges. The other half of the time putting him with the smaller unit of Corsairs to keep them guessing.

Flanking one side of the spears are the Corsairs, with the Witch Elves a few inches behind them. This screens the witches advance from missile fire and blocks them from doing anything stupid Frenzy-wise. They rarely charge, instead hammering with their bows when they get in range and shooting if they get charged. When enemies get close they move from wide 'archer' formations to a small 5x2 block (reforming on an angle if possible to give the Witches shared LoS on their attackers).

With the Witches a few inches back, they get a range of options, helping the spears or corsairs as needed, or, should the corsairs bite it fast under cavalry or an organ gun volley, counter charge threatening units.

On the opposite spearflank is the CoK unit, with the Dreadlord general attached. Even when they don't fail Stupidity (even with the Dreadlord's Ld9, my poor luck averages 3 failed Stupidity tests a match), the unit hovers a bit back from the main battle line, giving them room to maneuver to flank, as similar with the Witch Elves.

The hydra, sadly, has become a target, and rarely makes it to combat. The two early wins had the hydra charging the flank of the enemy gunline and simply walking down the line, overrunning from one fight to the next. Since then, it has become the primary focus of Flaming, Multi-wounding artillary. At this point, I simply keep him for Shock & Awe value. Centrally located, it gets mulched quickly by concentrated fire, and on the flank, it takes half wounds from nearby arty, and usually doesn't see combat till round 6.

Harpies and Riders are fairly obvious in their purpose. In theory they skirt behind terrain to cross the board, then fall upon gun crews, knocking their damning weapons out of commission. Instead, they generally eat organ gun and rifle fire as they move into position with one unit being destroyed, the other fleeing the board, and the last making a charge at half strength.
The 2nd sorceress generally joins the Riders, making them a good option for taking out gunners/archers through spell and missile fire; assuming they survive getting within range without fleeing.

Edit: The army build is the latest evolution of a continual tinkering process of keeping what works, and scrapping what hasn't. Also, the Corsairs are occasionally dual wielders.

**notabot187** · January 16th, 2010 01:22

For a list that says no characters you certainly spent to many point on them. Do you mean no special characters?

Did you know a Dreadlord has LD 10?! NOT 9? Masters have 9, as do supreme sorceresses.

The biggest issue that your list has is that you have virtually no heavy hitting units other than the hydra and cold ones. As you have found out they are very easy to kill with quality shooting. Since your heavy hitters are easily neutralized, you are left trying to win with a bunch of S3 guys with crap saves and 2 combat characters and assassin.

Putting the BSB in a unit of warriors with the banner of hag graef is a waste of time. High elf spears fight with one extra rank than normal, so will still munch on DE spears. Besides, S3 with ASF doesn't scare anybody. (as HE players will say, it is nice that it is there, but it rarely does anything)

You wizards are something you can't ever rely on, since you magic phase is actually weak even for 1000 -1500. 6 power dice including the armies dice? I bring that many dispel dice to this sized game. Joining your wizard to a unit of dark riders just makes it that more tempting to shoot at. They don't need help in that department lol.

I could go on about why this list isn't functioning, but instead I will just give you a list using the models that you have here as much as possible. If you want advice to build a list without so much magic, I can do that as well if asked.

Supreme sorceress: dagger ~ 285
Death hag: general, cauldron of blood ~ 200
Master: BSB, full mundane armor, banner of Nagarythe ~ 240
Sorceress: Tome of furion, dispel scroll ~ 180

22 Warriors: full command, war banner, shields ~ 194
5 dark riders: RxB ~ 110
10 corsairs: RHB ~ 100
10 RxB warriors: 100
10 RxB warriors: 100
5 harpies: 55
5 harpies: 55

5 CoKs: 135
12 witch elves: banner, Banner of murder ~ 155

War hydra ~ 175

Assassin: rune of khaine, touch of death, black lotus, Extra HW ~ 171

Total: 2250

This list is a testament to how much you can cram into one list if you are extremely thrifty with upgrades. Count it up: 8 pd, 5 dispel, 1 scroll, 1 cauldron blessing per game turn, 95 models, 1 Unbreakable unit, 1 unit that will be stubborn as long as it is near the cauldron. One Killing blow assassin, 2 units of flyers, 1 unit of fast cave that can move and shoot with a 24 inch range and 18 inch charge. 1 flame template producing unit that can move through cover (per the rules for monsters and handlers) and causes terror, 1 unit of S6 with lances 2+ save knights, and even a unit of corsairs that is an effective flank protection unit. The total number of shots per turn is: 50 normal RxB, and potentially 20 more hand bow shots (unlikely since they are run best as 5x2 so still at least 1

The BSB and sac dagger wizard go in the warrior block. Starting out it has 7-8 SCR. Just because you can stab, doesn't mean you should. 1-2 stabs a turn is all you need from it, so your warriors probably won't suffer too much. And even if you do go crazy and stab 5 guys in one turn, it probably was worth it.

Assassin goes wherever he feels like it. What, are YOU going to stop him?

Harpies are one of those units that I like to deploy last. Since they are so flexible, they can really mess with a battle plan if used well. Don't get doctrinal about how they are going to be used that game. They take whatever the opponent will give them, forcing them into a situation just makes them dead. (of course if that is your goal, go for it: eating fire is one of the things cheap fliers are meant for)

The dark riders are as small as they can get, but still use RxB. They are too expensive to use in big units, it makes them too tempting a target for shooting. They can't hold up to much shooting, so when they do get shot, you might as well not lose as many points as you are currently. Having your fast cav die isn't a big deal. Forcing your opponent to react to a cheap support unit is a big deal.

TBH I am not too thrilled about the RxB warriors. They really don't kill all that much, but over the course of the game they usually kill their points worth. But I really don't think everything is about getting points back. Esp since that is all RxB do. They really don't contribute much other than attrition. I prefer using min core with DE, since 2 -3 units of dark riders, plus spearmen in a block is all you really need. If you decide to go towards a less core centric army, try out black guard.

Corsairs kind of suck. I included them because you have them, and they only suck compared to the rest of the DE book. Most other armies would love to have them. Sure their bows are very short range, but they can still do a great job since their modifiers don't change for moving or half range. If you use them, keep them cheap and dirty.

It is possible to keep a hydra alive, even against a gunline. But it means carefully using available woods and hills. Even if you fail at this, as long as you draw enough fire for your rest your army to proceed mostly unshot, it was worth it. (if you really must, you can give the hydra a 5+ ward from the cauldron.)

**cthulhu_fred** · January 19th, 2010 17:30