1000ptz Dark Elf Friendly need advise.

[Darkelfplayer]

Hey guys,

I've Just started fantasy and i would like a combat related dark elf list.

So Far i have had tips of getting black gaurds and so i have some of them but nothing else. here is the list i intend to use. please post and comment i would like help getting on the right tracks.

HQ

Sorceress ( using lore of death and having tome of furion) 115 ptz

Master ( with sheild, heavy armour , sea dragon cloack, army banner (hydra) ) 200 ptz

Core

Repeater crossbowmen x 34 (whatever comes in 2 box sets take away whats needed for 1,000 points ) 370

Special

Black Gaurd x 19 ( army banner ( greif ) 2 musicians ) 315

thanks for viewing. like i said so far all i have is the sorceress 14 gaurds and a master. please give advise. i hear a blood cauldron would be useful by dropping the sorceress, or another fronting group. please help <- penguin

[notabot187]

2 musicians? How are you managing that?

the sorceress since she is a lvl 1 wizard, and your only one, is going to do worse than nothing. As in she will cast nothing, and you will pay for the honor of having a T3 model with no save and 2 wounds.

The hydra banner is too expensive at this points level. As is most of the powerful banner combos.

You don't need a full block of black guard at this level, 12-14 is more than enough esp with banner of ASF.

I assume you are getting 2 battle forces? then you will have CoKs and corsairs to use.

I would help more, but you really aren't even in the ballpark of having something reasonable. If you want to look at examples of what others have found to be effective, try looking around the board a bit. After you do that, post a revised list.

[Darkelfplayer]

i dont understand what you are getting at about what i should change. apart from the black gaurd part, are you saying that i should not get more gaurd and instead get corsairs? and to make my sorceress level 2? isnt this over 1,000 points. and why isnt this a reasonable list? im just asking because i dont understand. mabye if you give me some examples? i wanted a hydra banner because it will make my unit alot stronger... if i half my power into 2 units. surely it would be easyer to kill, then run down, and would be a waste of points instead of a unit which would be able to take down all the units? because 3 strength 4 attacks each is leathal at 1,000 stage? ( this is what i have heard from GWS staff. ) i might understand what you are getting at about the Coks. it would be useful having a secondary unit. simply because that unit can go around the map quickly. and because of its strength and attacks it would be able to take out the other units.

another thing i was wondering over the night was if it was "Legal" to make all my gaurd on the front line TM's because of the fact it will make my troops better because increasing 3-4 attacks each. if i had 5 on the front i would use 20 attacks strength 4 and with warrior elite i will hit most of my 20 attacks. if i kill atleast the front of their rank. unless they have spearmen. i should be able to make the unit run and retreat. and with I6 i should be able to run them down. this is what i was meaning about the 20 gaurd. because if i have less there combat res will be less meaning if it is tight i will lose combat. and a very expensive unit will be run down and killed.

The Cok's are also expensive and would cost alot of points to fit into my army. even if i take 5 gaurd and a sorceress off. it isnt enough for a unit of them... it would pay for 6....
If i was making a 1.5k army i might include some Coks because there a good unit to have. but simply too expsensive.

Corsairs mite get 2 attacks each because of their 2 handed weapons but because they have pretty much not the special cabability in battle as gaurd? why get them when i could have 2 units of gaurd ? for a extra 3 pts per model.

so What you have put doesnt make sense to me, because you are trying to explain that i should replace my "better" troops for one's which arent as good? i understand the sorceress and will probably drop. and replace with something when i think of it. but replacing with coks or corsairs would be too expensive and not as good

note- coks may be better but they are twice the amount of points. for the same amount of attacks - warrior elite? just for some better saving throws? if u kill more than 6... they dont attack back. so what is the point. unless spears. but why charge CAVALRY against spears?

[Darkelfplayer]

Don't get me wrong im happy for your solution but i would like you to spread on it abit i dont understand it thats all.

P.s thanks for posting

[Darkelfplayer]

went to some posts just now. and i saw other people wernt using 36 RxB's mabye i should lower it to fit some coks in. here is my
list if i do that. please comment. and give reason if comment is on Hydra banner!

Hero
Master ( with sheild, heavy armour , sea dragon cloack, army banner (hydra) ) 200 ptz

Core
RxB x18 180 pts

Special
Gaurd x 14 ( greif + musician ) 221
Coks x 5 (greif +5 dreadknights) 385

Thanks. please comment

[kpooh]

Are you serious?

If so, it needs a lot more work...

First of all, read your army composition rules carefully. You need 2+ core units in 1000 point game. Secondly, you can only have ONE champion per unit. Dread Knight is a champion, hense no 5+.

Secondly, anyone who has played more than 2 games is going to anihilate this army by the end of the 2nd turn.

[waddywoos]

Okay, i sense a fair amount of harshness in here. Just because someone is new and doesn't know all that much about army composition doesn't mean you have call his ideas stupid and be less than helpful.

ok rant done. Now I will help

Hero
Master ( with sheild, heavy armour , sea dragon cloack, army banner (hydra) ) 200 ptz

In an army you MUST have a General who must be a hero or a lord. However you can upgrade one of these choices into a battle standard bearer (BS who can have a magic banner. IMPORTANT: the BSB cannot be the general, so if you have one you MUST have at lest one more character. At 1000 pts Darke Elves simply cannot afford to take a BSB because its not worth it.

Core
RxB x18 180 pts

Almost there on this one. The rules are (for games under 2000 points) that you much have 2 core unit choices or more. Therefore you are forced to take another core choice from the army book. Repeater crossbowmen are up there with the best core units in the game. You can shoot two shots each as the enemy approaches, then stand and shoot another 2 shots each when they charge you (avoid charging) and then if you take them in a unit of 16 or 20 with a standard bearer and a musician you have 3 ranks and a standard - giving you +4 on the combat resolution before you even begin. If you give them sheilds (DO!) then using that along with their light armour in combat gives them a 4+ save, which makes them the same as empire swordsmen - very nice. Take 2 units or 16, or a unit of 20 and a unit of dark riders (who are the best fast cavalry in the game btw) as your core.

Special
Gaurd x 14 ( greif + musician ) 221
Coks x 5 (greif +5 dreadknights) 385

again, almost right! Firstly, you can never take the same magic item in your army twice, unless its form the 'common magic items' list, or it specifically says you can have more than one in its entry. You've tried to take the same magical standard twice, and thats not allowed. Secondly, in any unit you may only take the upgrades of 'champion, musician and standard bearer' once. So you can't have more than one knight upgraded to a dreadknight. If you play with Cold one Knights at 1000 points, then its best to only have a musician and nothing else. Remember, small point games are all about fitting in as much as you can afford, so splashing out 16 points for just 1 extra attack, and another 16 for +1 combat resolution point when with those 32 points you could have another knight and points to spare isn't so great. Take 5 Knights with just a musician.
Black guard are awesome, but because they're so good it means that in small point games its not worth putting lots in one unit, because less of them will still win a combat and the extra ones are just a waste of points you could spend on more elves in another unit. I'd say 12-14 in a unit is a optimal size. Its debateable whether you should include command (which means the champion, standard and musician) in ths unit either as again, its so many points and you could get more elves somewhere else. Give 14 of them just a musician and they'll cream anything at 1000 points.

All of this points saving is for a reason, and the best way to win at 1000 points is to fit as much in your list as you can. There's no point in putting big units on the table at less than 2000 pts, because they'll just get surrounded or your opponent won't go near them. Instead, use the points you've savesd to take a Hydra. 175 points gets you one of the hardest units in the entire game, and at 1000 points games is virtually impossible to kill. When they wrote the army book they severely undercosted it, it should be more like 250, 300 so its great value.

So more what i'd recommend would be:

Master, Null Talisman, halberd, sheild, heavy armour, sea dragon cloak 109 pts

16 repeater crossbowmen, sheilds, musician, standard 196 pts
16 repeater crossbowmen, sheilds, musician, standard 196 pts

14 black guard, musician 189 pts
5 cold one knights, 135 pts

War Hydra 175 pts


Total: 1000 pts exactly

OR

Master, Null Talisman, halberd, sheild, heavy armour, sea dragon cloak 109 pts

16 repeater crossbowmen, sheilds, musician, standard 196 pts
5 dark riders, crossbows, musician 117 pts
5 shades 80 pts

14 black guard, musician 189 pts
5 cold one knights, 135 pts

War Hydra 175 pts

Total: 1001 pts

The first list has 2 large combat resolution generating units that can shoot, as well as the black guard (with master) and hydra to hammer the enemy while the knights flank. The second list is a little more subtle in that you don't have that second large unit of crossbowmen, but you have alot more manouverability with fast cavalry that can shoot, and some shades to really annoy the enemy and just get in the way. You could easily swap the shades for 7 harpies depending on your facy as they do alot of the same things.

Good luck! (and don't let certain other people get you down!)

Waddy

[Darkelfplayer]

i have finished this thread due to the fact of having another 1 with a different list. which has been changed from this 1. thank you for posting. and for all your advise.

--------------------------- D O N O T P O S T ------------------------------------------

------------ Here i go again another list which my mate told me friendly 1000pts ------------

--------------------------- THANK YOU! --------------------------------------------------------------