>3000 2500 point balanced force - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
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    2500 point balanced force

    lords 602
    supreme sorceress,lvl4,talisman of preservation,tome of furion,(shadow)
    dreadlord,cold one,full mundane,whip of agony,pendant,crown of command

    heroes 308
    master,bsb,armour of eternal servitude,dragonbane gem,halberd
    sorceress,lvl2,dispell scroll,(dark)

    core 688
    29xwarriors,shields,full com.,banner of eternal servitude (supreme)
    20xcorsairs,full.com,sea serpant standard
    10xcrossbowmen,musician (lvl2)
    10xcrossbowmen,musician

    special 552
    19xblack gaurd,full com.,banner of murder,(bsb)
    5xcold one knights,musician,(dreadlord)
    6xshades,ahws

    rare 350
    warhydra
    warhydra

    total:2500

    Last edited by affliction69; June 21st, 2011 at 14:53.

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  3. #2
    Senior Member Karrain's Avatar
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    Looks good, I'd drop eternal flame for SSS (frenzy will be more of a help than flaming attacks) and drop crown of command on your Dreadlord (the CoK probably don't need to be stubborn, especially with those Hydras around to support them). I'd also swap the Whip for deathpiercer to make your character extra nasty in challenges.
    It'd also be worth shuffling around some points to give your warriors shields and move the Supreme Sorceress to an Rxb unit.
    Otherwise the list looks great.
    "Take their gold, burn their homes, kill their familes and enslave their souls. Show them no mercy...oh and could you post these letters while you're out?"
    -Malekith, Witch King of Naggaroth.

  4. #3
    Senior Member Ravenblade's Avatar
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    The Whip of Agony has the potential to be better than Deathpiercer (not that a KB lance is bad). If a combat is only going to last 1 round and you're going to be charging then Deathpiercer is the better option, with 4 WS7 S6 KB attacks on the charge. However for drawn out combats the Whip has the advantages, as in the 2nd and subsequent rounds he'll have 5 WS7 S5 AP attacks every round, as opposed to 4 WS7 S4 attacks after the 1st round.


    I agree with Karrain about the Crown though, it does seem a bit excessive really.

    Also, why not fork out an extra 5pts and give your BSB the Dragonbane Gem, giving him a 2+ Ward vs Flaming attacks and not having to care about things ignoring his Regen save (unless its K.

    Apart from that, nice list.
    Fantasy - Dark Elves, Warriors of Chaos \/ 40K - Word BearersChaos Space Marines

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  5. #4
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    thx for the reply,my warriors do have shields just didnt put it on there as i never take warriors without shields.gave him stubborn cause at first i was gonna do a 9man unit of cok with him but i couldnt fit 2hydras in so this is what i ended up with. quess i could drop it.as for the dragonbane gem i didnt think about that not a bad combo i think i will do that.as for the death piercer i thought that even in subsequent rounds of combat he still gets killing blow even though hes at str 4.as if you see morathi's heartrender it actually says on the charge,where the death piercer doesnt.but i do seem to remember something stupid about models with a lance using there hand weapons in subsequent rounds of combat,but at the same time says always uses magical weapons over mundane.I think u could still fight with a lance realistically,as i cant see a knight charging in just to drop his lance on the ground and pulling out another weapon but maybe im wrong
    Last edited by affliction69; June 21st, 2011 at 14:58.

  6. #5
    Senior Member Ravenblade's Avatar
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    Historically, lances would easily impale an oponent on the charge, but the weight of the impaled body would either snap or weigh down the lance more often than not, so knights would generally drop them after the charge and resort to swords etc in the confines of a melee, where a lance is too cumbersome and bulky to attack with efficiently. They may be neatly arrayed as they charge into the enemy, but once in amongst the enemy regiments it become a swirling maelstrom of swords, bodies and horses. Lances are also incredibly large and heavy weapons, making them bulky and cumbersome when in close quarters.

    The trouble with Deathpiercer (and other weapons of a similar nature, ie, Star Lance) is that the wording is unclear. For instance Deathpiercer says "Lance. Killing Blow." Now as a lance it is used only on the turn you charge for +2S, and it provides Killing Blow being a magic weapon, but being a magic weapon it is used over mundane weaponry. The conflict of rules cause this to be interpeted either way. However, it is possible to interpret that a lance is used as a hand weapon (of sorts) in subsequent rounds, really just adding more confusion.

    Thinking this case through, it's best really to choose your interpretation of the rules and stick to it. If you come across an opponent that disagrees with you, then discuss it reasonably and just dice off (1,2,3 it has KB all the time, 4,5,6 only on the charge, something like that). Although now I've just given this essay-type reply I'm convinced by the "KB-all-the-time" camp....

    I still prefer the Whip of Agony tbh, purely because you can use a Cauldron to get KB. Plus that and it's an extra attack.

    As for Morathi's Heartrender, it's a good weapon, but the Darksword can be the better option as it's cheaper and can kill off the average Lord level mage with one wounding hit.
    Fantasy - Dark Elves, Warriors of Chaos \/ 40K - Word BearersChaos Space Marines

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  7. #6
    Senior Member Karrain's Avatar
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    The wording on lances states that they are never used in the second round of combat...so I would assume that as a lance Deathpiercer has that rule (as it has all the other rules for a lance).
    "Take their gold, burn their homes, kill their familes and enslave their souls. Show them no mercy...oh and could you post these letters while you're out?"
    -Malekith, Witch King of Naggaroth.

  8. #7
    Senior Member Ravenblade's Avatar
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    See, that's what I thought.

    It falls into the same debate as the High Elf Star Lance, which gives +3S on the charge and ignores armours saves in addition. Like Deathpiercer's Killing Blow rule, because it is a magic weapon it falls into conflict with the lance rule.

    The lance rule states Lances give +2S on the charge and is only used in the first round, but the rules for magic weapons state they are used over any mundane weaponry the model may have i each round of combat. So one rule states that Deathpiercer and the Star Lance are only used on the charge being lances, whereas another rule states they are used each combat phase as a result of being a magic weapon. The problem is that both rules apply to the said weapons, but each rule overrules the other.

    Doing a bit more thinking, it's a lance, so I'll now firmly go sit in the 1st round only camp.
    Fantasy - Dark Elves, Warriors of Chaos \/ 40K - Word BearersChaos Space Marines

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  9. #8
    Organised Chaos saltrock36's Avatar
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    I would have to go the other way in that matter, and say that as with a normal lance you only use the + strength on the charge, you retain its abilities in subsequent rounds. Its not like it breaks on the charge, as if you make another charge later in the game you get the + strength again. He can still sit atop his mount and thrust away with the lance even if he has no charge bonus.

    It is a good question as to what rule over writes which,but whe you conside the points you pay for the item and the cost of a mundane lance, compared to what you get from its magic abilities, then it makes sense you keep its magic abilities wether you charge or not.

    Same way as Flail of Skulls only gives a strength bonus in the first round, but you retain it magical abilities.
    Last edited by saltrock36; June 22nd, 2011 at 22:30.

  10. #9
    Senior Member Ravenblade's Avatar
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    With the whole "breaks on the charge" thing I was speaking from a real-world perspective. Obviously Warhammer is a game and has certain creative licence. It would make the game too complicated if you had to remember which unit had used it's lances and which one hadn't (like the old rules for throwing spears in LOTR).

    The problem is, whichever way you look at it, both sides of the argument are right, because the rules imply both. As for looking at the points costs...there are plenty of items that are overpriced for their effects (Web of Shadows anyone?).

    Plus a flail would be far easier to use in a melee than a lance.
    Fantasy - Dark Elves, Warriors of Chaos \/ 40K - Word BearersChaos Space Marines

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  11. #10
    Senior Member Karrain's Avatar
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    The wording for flails implies that you would normally get the strength bonus every round of combat but using such a weapon is tiring and hence the wielder's fatigue cancels out the bonus in subsequent rounds of combat. Also, a flail can be used practically in combat, how many fights have you seen where the knight hangs on to his flail instead of opting for the broadsword strapped over his back after his initial charge?
    "Take their gold, burn their homes, kill their familes and enslave their souls. Show them no mercy...oh and could you post these letters while you're out?"
    -Malekith, Witch King of Naggaroth.

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